Zero SR

[Adan]

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/sr.php

Well ahead of the Empulse in torque spec.  Range up to 171 miles with the battery add-on.  Looks to be the same chassis as the 2013 S?  If so, that's a little surprising.  I would have thought at least a suspension upgrade to go along with the hot rodded motor.

[Richard230]

More information here: 

http://news.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/eicma-2013-zeros-sr-electric-motorcycle-launch.htm

It looks like both the frame and suspension have been beefed up to handle the extra power and weight.  I do wonder if the belt drive is up to the task, though?

Here is what Motorcycle.com has to say:

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/11/05/motorcycle-news/eicma-2013-2014-zero-motorcycles-street-lineup/

[EmpulseRider]

Damn nice bike... I can see where some folks may actually prefer this over the Empulse, but I still think the Empulse is more bike for the $. It will be interesting to see how Brammo responds, if they feel they need to at all.

Since when did they carry a 5 year 100K warranty on their batteries?? That must be new.

[Adan]

Read some comments on Rideapart to the effect that the component upgrade essentially brings the Zero chassis up to the level of a budget 250 motorcycle.  Not their actual words, my rendering of it. 

Even with the 2014 Zeros, it's still a choice between two very different approaches to the electric motorcycle.  But with the added range option on the Zeros, you know there will be a slice of the riding populace who say "ah, now, this becomes a practical option for me."

[protomech]

The 5 year 100k mile warranty is indeed new, and it matches Brammo's warranty. Kudos to Brammo for stepping up to the plate first, and I'm very happy to see Zero matching them.

With the additional battery module, Zero is well beyond the onboard energy of the Empulse. 116 miles of combined riding vs 77 miles.

Zero still doesn't really have an equivalent to the Empulse R. They continue to make incremental improvements to the components: new dash looks very nice, better suspension and larger rear brake are all welcome.

The SR's motor has higher temperature magnets - so should suffer less from overheating than the 2013 Zeros - but it will still likely thermally throttle on a straight long before the Empulse.

Also, Zero hasn't improved their charging capabilities at all for 2014. 110V AC charging is similar of course - easier without the bulky L1 EVSE. Zero doesn't have a good solution for J1772 AC charging. And the CHAdeMO accessory is still available, but no less expensive.

With the price drop for the S bikes, gradual component improvements, and the big-motor Zero SR (think muscle car to Brammo's lower-power exotic), the 2014 Zero lineups are pretty strong against Brammo IMO. Especially in the primary electrics role of commuting: price, range, and convenience are all well-favored for Zero.

It'll be interesting to see with what, if anything, Brammo responds. I wouldn't be surprised to see a significant price drop, perhaps $2000, for the 2014 Empulse .. and perhaps bringing over some of the lessons learned from racing the TTX. Narrower rear wheel, transmission tweaks to reduce lash, slight weight drops, perhaps a low-drag fairing?

[Richard230]

What I appreciate is that both companies are giving the electric motorcycle consumer a choice between a high-end component sport bike with a transmission and a chassis to match and an easy to ride commuter and utility vehicle with a high power model for the exhibitionists. I don't see that the Zero and the Brammo really overlap in many areas, which I believe is good for both the two companies and the consumer.  You don't want one company to steal sales from the other.  The market is just too small at this moment.

[860]

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/sr.php

Well ahead of the Empulse in torque spec.  Range up to 171 miles with the battery add-on.  Looks to be the same chassis as the 2013 S?  If so, that's a little surprising.  I would have thought at least a suspension upgrade to go along with the hot rodded motor.

One thing I appreciate about Zero's website is the upfront performance data, like 0-60 times:

                                                     ZERO SR zf11.4          ZERO SR ZF11.4 +Power Tank
Acceleration, 0-60 mph (0-100 km/h)    3.3 seconds   3.9 seconds


I wish Brammo would post stuff like that for the E1 and R.

[Adan]

I didn't notice the price drop on the S's until Protomech mentioned it.  That's a big drop!  Perhaps Zero is anticipating the end of the federal tax credit?  I don't presume to know their business strategy, but it has seemed to me that when you "do the math" and compare the long term cost of an electric motorcycle versus a gas bike, that 10% lopped off the front has been important to making a reasonably persuasive argument.

I'm getting pretty good at rolling out that "doing the math" argument, by the way.  Almost every time someone asks me what I paid for my Empulse, I say "if you've got a minute, I'll explain why this makes sense when you do the math.  First off, there's a federal tax credit . . . "

I test rode the 2013 Zero and though I was impressed with the performance of the motor, the chassis just left me feeling "meh."  At first glance, the 2014 chassis changes seem merely incremental.  I agree with others here who've said that there will probably be relatively few people cross-shopping the Zero and the Empulse.  There will be those who will accept "meh" in order to have the practicality, price, and range of the Zero, and then there will be those for whom "meh" is not good enough.

[EmpulseRider]

I'm getting pretty good at rolling out that "doing the math" argument, by the way.  Almost every time someone asks me what I paid for my Empulse, I say "if you've got a minute, I'll explain why this makes sense when you do the math.  First off, there's a federal tax credit . . . "

There's an app for that! http://www.empulsebuyer.com/tcoCalculator.php

Its now a bit dated with the new 2014 Zeros but I will update the app as soon as 2014 Brammos are announced.

[protomech]

$1000 off the top is not a bad cut. Combined with the improved suspension and display and other small tweaks, it's a pretty nice improvement over 2013.

I expect Brammo to counter with small if any changes and to drop the price of the Empulse somewhat. This should also coincide with the Empulse being available for the European market.

I'll go ahead and call a $2000 price cut for both the R and the E1, putting the R directly inline with the Zero SR and the E1 directly in line with the S ZF11.4.

[860]

There's an app for that! http://www.empulsebuyer.com/tcoCalculator.php

Its now a bit dated with the new 2014 Zeros but I will update the app as soon as 2014 Brammos are announced.

I'm not sure if Brammo really plays the model year game.  I don't know if they will time any changes with a model year change-over.  Before when they have done price cuts on the Enertia, it was right in the middle of a model year.  Heck, on the landing page for the Empulse, they still talk about the 2012's, and 2013 is almost over.

"The 2012 Empulse has a 6 speed transmission as standard equipment. The Integrated Electric Transmission (IET™) - IET™ is a mechatronic propulsion unit that emulates the feeling and performance of a traditional internal combustion engine, with a specially developed electric motor, clutch and gear shift, that enables the 2012 Empulse to accelerate hard from the line up to a high top speed, something that is just not possible to achieve with a single ratio electric motorcycle. The 2012 Empulse is also the world's first production electric motorcycle to feature water cooling."

[kingcharles]

I expect Brammo to counter with small if any changes and to drop the price of the Empulse somewhat. This should also coincide with the Empulse being available for the European market.

I'll go ahead and call a $2000 price cut for both the R and the E1, putting the R directly inline with the Zero SR and the E1 directly in line with the S ZF11.4.

I think Brammo would classify the Enertia in line with a Zero S
Empulse is in its own league due to the gearbox.

I was very, very surprised to see Zero drop the prices on the S and DS to say the least!
Another pricing note: The 2013 models had the same price in the whole Euro (€) zone. And the conversion from $ to € was 1 to 1. The 2014 models are priced differently per country and relative to the $ prices have become a bit more expensive. With the sad fact that my country has the highest Euro price of all.  And we even have the Zero EU headquarters...

[Shinysideup]

I'm getting pretty good at rolling out that "doing the math" argument, by the way.  Almost every time someone asks me what I paid for my Empulse, I say "if you've got a minute, I'll explain why this makes sense when you do the math.  First off, there's a federal tax credit . . . "

There's an app for that! http://www.empulsebuyer.com/tcoCalculator.php

Its now a bit dated with the new 2014 Zeros but I will update the app as soon as 2014 Brammos are announced.

I just say, "After rebates about 13 thousand, penny a mile to operate and no tuneup costs ever."

[protomech]

The last Zero S that could be compared to the modern Enertia Plus with a straight face was the 2011.

[Gavin]

Yep...I love the Enertia Plus...but she needs an update.

Two seats, increased top speed and top range. Simple right

G