Go read this great write up...

[Gavin]

http://rideapart.com/2014/03/2014-brammo-empulse-rr-review/?fb_action_ids=10202682328173761&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=above-post&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B746027185407675%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%22above-post%22%5D

Wes got to ride the RR? Jealous.

Gavin

[BrammoBrian]

I don't know where he got that 5 lap count from.  He did 2 sessions of 8-10 laps on the bike himself.  Shane did a race simulation at 8 laps, which is the longest race AFM runs, the Formula Pacific class. 

Here a couple of the images that didn't get published:

Eric chases Wes on a Ninja 250R:


Wes heads out.  The team holds their breath... 


Wes leading some "gassers":


The RR after a hard day's work:

[Shinysideup]

I think, perhaps, Wes might have like his experience on the RR:

"Was it fast? Well, with 173 hp at the wheel and 166 lb.-ft. at the crank, what do you think?

Let’s start this with a simple comparison. The fastest gas-powered superbike available in showrooms today is the Ducati 1199 Panigale R. It’s been shown to make 186 hp at its wheel and around 100 lb.-ft. of torque at its crank. It weighs 417 lbs (wet) and, in the hands of Brammo factory racer Eric Bostrom, lapped Laguna Seca in 1:33.07.

This Empulse RR weighs 467 lbs and Eric’s teammate Shane Turpin (who rides this “Sauvetage” graphic version) lapped Laguna Seca in 1:32.581. So yes, this electric race bike is fast. Faster, in fact, than any Internal Combustion Engine bike ever sold to the public.

On Thunderhill’s short, half-mile front straight, the RR was able to reign in and pass any other bike on the track with us that day. That included BMW S1000RRs and the aforementioned Panigale.

The Brammo Empulse, the Mission RS, the Energica Ego and now this Empulse RR are some of the best handling sport motorcycles I've ever ridden, regardless of their powertrain.

So, on a track, with a full race crew in support, on Dunlop’s best SBK-spec slicks, was this the fastest, best handling bike I've ever ridden? Yes it was. But that’s not what made it remarkable. What truly makes the Empulse RR special is how it manages to squeeze so much performance into such a friendly, accessible package.

… this in-house project by a small startup in Oregon is changing what motorcycles are capable of. Suddenly, anything else feels not just slow, but outdated.

The performance is just staggering. I raved for days about putting 100-foot gaps on Panigale’s on Thunderhill’s half-mile straight. Nobody believed me, but they haven’t ridden one of these things yet. 166 lb.-ft. available from 0-6,500rpm is just a whole other world.

You and I are lucky people to be living in an era where motorcycle performance is being completely redefined. And right now, it’s the Empulse RR writing that definition. Gives these guys a budget equal to that of a factory race team in World SBK or MotoGP and they’d have no problem competing and likely winning. Electricity is that superior a power source. As it stands, the Empulse RR is a stunning peek into the future of fast motorcycles."

[protomech]

Typical for Wes: his articles are great to read, enthusiastic, and then there's always the point where you face-palm. I'm glad the article didn't lead in with a photo of Wes peeing on the side of the track after five laps.

BrammoBrian: the last of those photos is on the 2nd page of the article. I recall the 250R vs RR photo floating around a little bit ago.. maybe it was in Brammo's smugmug collection?

Interesting to see a hard weight claim. 467 pounds is quite light.. lighter than the 2013 Empulse R (9.3 kWh, 470 pounds) and the 2014 Mission R (12 kWh, 490 pounds). Granted these bikes are in street trim .. still quite good.

[BrammoBrian]

BrammoBrian: the last of those photos is on the 2nd page of the article. I recall the 250R vs RR photo floating around a little bit ago.. maybe it was in Brammo's smugmug collection?

Interesting to see a hard weight claim. 467 pounds is quite light.. lighter than the 2013 Empulse R (9.3 kWh, 470 pounds) and the 2014 Mission R (12 kWh, 490 pounds). Granted these bikes are in street trim .. still quite good.

Ha... this is embarassing... I didn't realize there was a second page in the article! 

Yes... the photos of the TTX vs. the 250R are on our SmugMug gallery.  Now you know who's riding the TTX though! 

Agreed on the weight.  When we campaigned the bike with the 12.4kWh battery at the start of 2012, we were right at 450lbs.  Also... I should point out that the RRs were not making 170hp at Laguna Seca.  It's too bad we can't go back there this year to take another crack at that Mission qualifying record.  Oh well...

[protomech]

Hopefully there will be a 2014 Refuel.. Laguna Seca is a true benchmark track. I'm pretty bummed about no TTXGP @ LS this year.

[Gavin]

Proto...observant as ever...the weight is impressive. I wonder if Brammo should do a Tesla and release the RR to the public as an expensive ride...heck...

A) they are letting Wes ride it...perhaps a step toward seeing if good, serious, but "regular" riders like this beast.

B) Economy of scale...yes the 2 RRs are incredibly expensive, but that research is done and ramping up, even in a limited fashion, would be much less expensive. Could Brammo make the RR for around the price of what Mission is promising their bike?

C) The people who keep promising the top of the line, expensive bikes (mission, lightning) just aren't seeming to deliver. Brammo can say to those "well to do" track riders and such, "you want 170 HP...here ya go..."

D) Back to economy of scale...doing this would push prices of High Voltage components down. The Empulse R with HV components would rock even more.

E) Like Tesla...Expensive cars/bikes get press and bragging rights.

F) unlike Tesla, currently, this bike could be a Halo bike. Customers come in to see the RR and then buy a more affordable R. (The S will be Teslas Halo car when the E comes out.)

G) Racing: Brammo offers the TTX for racing. Brammo could offer the RR for racing buffs too.

All this is speculation...and Brian may show up and laugh at half, or all, of my bullet points...still having the RR rode by Wes, vs him only riding the TTX---which would make sense as the TTX is a bike the public can buy--is interesting. That and the street ready weight of the RR. Who knows. Still it keeps running through my head...why have Wes ride and basically review the RR? It's like having a journalist drive a one-of-a-kind formula race car by Mercedes or Audi at full speed around a race track....nobody does that...the downside is too great and there is no upside as that car will never be for sale to the public....either Brammo loves Wes, or Brammo is putting a toe in the water...

As for Refuel to try and break seca's electric motorcycle lap record....great idea....IF.....if Brammo can get some time on the track before the electric cars...if I remember correctly the cars just tear up the track by leaving tons of rubber all over the track and make it impossible to get a "record" or even really good time.

G

[Gavin]

Ha...as I wait for Brian to laugh at me...more thoughts

The question becomes: do you think the RR would sell? Would you be interested in buying one?

This is an especially important question to the people who have bought a TTX. I know there are a couple of them at this site. Would you race an RR is it was available? Or is the TTX enough? Or is budget a major consideration? Or does speed trump budget?

Heck, forget racing. Like the proposed Mission bike, would you use the RR as a daily rider? I know that nobody needs 170 HP to ride to work...but people drive muscle cars and fast cars as their daily riders...would the RR be a similar purchase?

And what would the price need to be? Similar to what Mission is proposing? A bit more?

The market is hard to assess. Many thought the S was too expensive to sell, but is doing well. The same can be said of the iPhone when it came out. At the same time, many project fail from a high initial price. Hard to judge...glad I'm not a business man

G

[protomech]

Brammo could probably release a street-trim version of the Empulse RR. Same powertrain/frame/battery, excellent street components instead of motoGP-spec tires/brakes/wheels.

It'd probably cost around what Mission wants for their R bike .. mid $30k.

Lightning is a little bit of a canary in this market. We're STILL waiting for production fairings to appear, but they've been talking about selling copies of the race bike to anyone who can stump up the money for years now. As far as I can tell they've seen MAYBE one taker. Their marketing sucks (sorry) and they don't seem like they're really ready for mass-production and support, but still.. if there was huge untapped demand you would think they would have moved a couple of bikes.

Mission claims to have significant numbers of preorders (i.e., double-digit) for their bikes. They've pushed out a lot of slick marketing recently, so perhaps they'll succeed where Lightning has (to date) failed. The super-premium market seems like it's getting pretty crowded with companies that want to sell bikes in the near future .. Brutus, Lightning, Mission, and soon Lito and eCRP.

My guess is that the super-premium market will get mopped up between Mission and eCRP. I'd love to see Brutus and Lightning pull through, but both seem like boutique small run builders.

[Brammofan]

Note: Just read on Facebook that Wes is splitting from RideApart. Not sure what he's going to do now but I'm sure he'll bounce back.

[Gavin]

Brammo could probably release a street-trim version of the Empulse RR. Same powertrain/frame/battery, excellent street components instead of motoGP-spec tires/brakes/wheels.

It'd probably cost around what Mission wants for their R bike .. mid $30k.
......

My guess is that the super-premium market will get mopped up between Mission and eCRP. I'd love to see Brutus and Lightning pull through, but both seem like boutique small run builders.

Another great write up...Proto, how are you not working for an Electric Vehicle company??

So...your thoughts...would that RR compete with Mission in the super-premium market? Mission has the marketing, and a super sexy bike...Brammo has a (small) number of dealerships and actually has bikes on the road in customer's hands...and a tough looking bike in the RR.

But it is a tough market...and Lightning's failure/quietness is worrisome. And while dealerships are a bonus, Tesla isn't far off in thinking it is hard to have ICE and Electric on the same sales floor.

I would love Brammo to be for sell at all the Telsa stores...but that isn't going to happen. 

Gavin

[Gavin]

I also assume the RR will be, like the race bike, a single speed bike.

Purists might not like it...but I would be fine with that. Heck, my Empulse R stays in 2nd gear for all my city driving...which is 90% of my driving.

G

[Gavin]

The more I think about this, the more likely it seems Brammo will, or could, or should, do this.

A) Nobody is currently (love saying that--currently...hehe) selling in the super premium crowd...a number of promises, but nothing on the road. Brammo could easily either lead or be right at the front.

B) Halos are Heavenly. Easy to make a number of these and have them in their prime dealers. Bring in the crowds to see the RR and some might walk out with a R.

C) Press and bragging rights. Brammo likes to say they have the fastest production electric motorcycle. The RR would let them continue to say that...heck, the RR might be the fastest production motorcycle?? Or pretty damn near. What's the horse power on other production bikes?

Still, would be a win win for Brammo, unless the start up price to make the RR is just too much to absorb. Again, racing has helped defray those costs (though racing itself is hugely expensive).

Having the RR to lead the product line would also keep a separation with Zero. The 2014 Zero S is a great bike. The Empulse R costs a bit more, but it helps maintain sales because it is better looking, with better components and the shifty, which many riders want. Still there is not a huge difference between the two companies, nor their product lines ( Gavin ducks from objects being thrown from Talent, OR...Gavin also refers to himself in third person twice in this post. Gavin (3 TIMES!) is perhaps losing his mind.).

Having the RR for sale to customers would give Brammo a big wedge against the competition. 173 HP is a big freakin wedge.

Gavin

[Richard230]

When I spoke with Lightning last fall, they had sold one of their lower-cost "street" bikes and were talking to someone in Europe about supplying a few of the really fast racers for track use there.

What I like about both the Zero and Brammo models is that they don't directly compete against each other - at least in my view.  The Zero is more of a transportation and commuting EV and the Brammo is more of a sport bike's enthusiast motorcycle.  The Zero is easier to ride and maintain, especially for new riders, while the Empulse takes more commitment from its owner and is aimed more at the sporting side of electric motorcycle market.  There is a market for both companies' products and I don't think they step on each other toes all that much.

Regarding racing, I don't think Zero is going to beat (or even try to compete with) Brammo in the one-off racing arena, but Zero should do well in the production class - where there is one.  I haven't heard a peep about Zero making a high-end racing bike to compete with Brammo's efforts.  It seems to me that they are focused on selling bikes and making money. I believe that going racing is not part of their business plan.

[kingcharles]

Converting a prototype into a production bike takes around 2 years. So if Brammo decided to sell the RR it would not hit the street before 2016

Once you go EV, gas is history!