Charging at night

[Brammofan]

I saw somewhere that someone charged at night to take advantage of reduced electric rates.  (Is that vague enough?)...It may have even been on another forum.

The Brammo Enertia charging procedure requires that the bike be connected to AC power in order to charge... if it's not, then it times out after about 30 seconds, and you'd have to restart the charging procedure to begin.  This would be the case if the plug wasn't connected to the wall, or if the plug was connected to a timer, set to take advantage of those night-time rates.

Here's the question: is there a way (or will there be a way) for Brammo owners to have their bikes re-charge on a time-controlled (time delay) power source, so that they can utilize lower cost per kwh rates?

[Phantom]

Here's the question: is there a way (or will there be a way) for Brammo owners to have their bikes re-charge on a time-controlled (time delay) power source, so that they can utilize lower cost per kwh rates?

Yes, there can be a software solution in theory, so I would put this in the "will be" category. I would suspect as more people switch to EVs in general, there will be market solutions available to take take advantages of charging during "off peak" times to save money.

I also think this could be an opportunity for a smart phone application.

I like this idea.

[ColoBrammo]

I think it would also be helpful to be able to select between a "fast" and "slow" charge profile, as well and temperature sensitive charging.  I generally ride my bike about once a day, then put it away to charge.  I would like:

1. Only initiate charging the batteries when the internal temperature has dropped sufficiently.  Despite whatever claims exist regarding the robustness of LiFe batteries, charging at cooler temps will be better for the battery.  Whatever we can do to make the batteries last longer, we should do it. 
2. Have a timer delayed or clock based charging window.  I want my bike to charge when it's cool AND after hours in the evening.  I only have a single 15A outlet in the garage, and charging my bike prevents me from using my air compressor (for instance).
3. Charging at a slower rate is more efficient.  At a minimum the I^2*R power losses in the house wiring and extension cords will be much less (after all, this is a square-law loss!) and I don't care how long it takes to charge so long as it's finished when I get up the AM.
4. Obviously, a manual over-ride to force an immediate fast charge if need be.

All of the above is "just" software!  Should be a piece of cake, right??? :-)

[Brammofan]

Hiya ColoBrammo -
I must admit, I hadn't thought about the "cool charging" issue.  My garage, in the summer, is crazy hot - 90s and 100s during the day I'm sure.  Do you think I'm putting my battery at risk by charging it in these conditions?

I agree with you that the fast/slow charge and the timer options would be great to have.

[ColoBrammo]

Charging cool batteries is better than charging hot batteries- I hate to be so nebulous, and certainly I would think there are some temperature cut-off features in the on-board charger to prevent charging the batteries > ~45 deg C (~120F).  However, that's still pretty freakin' hot. 

It's also probably "better" not to recharge your bike immediately after riding it- the batteries get hot discharging as well as charging, so if you wait a while and let them cool down, that might help, as they will disipate heat again during the charge phase.

As far as I know, ALL electro-chemical processes (like charging/discharging batteries) are severely temperature dependant.  I believe that Brammo/Valence has likely done some good homework and designed a battery management system to mitigate problems with charging over temperature.

Having said all that, it's also probably better to utilize these features as little as possible.  The less abuse the batteries see, the longer they will last.  Period.  Same goes for just about any machine- the more you abuse it, the shorter it's useful life.

Usually battery cycling capacity is measured/calculated using rather ideal lab conditions, including discharge characteristics, charge characteristics, and temperature. 

I would bet that the 1700 charge/discharge cycles that the batteries within the Brammo are rated for would be a substantially lower number if this rating was done at elevated temperature- I could very well be wrong here, since I don't have a data sheet for the battery in question.