Polaris acquires Brammo

[frodus]

@csspring I really would have appreciated, if you wouldn´t had ordered 

Why? The Empulse is a great motorcycle and as far as I'm concerned, we'll supported.

[Virtually Yours]

I'm excited about this for couple reasons.
1. I'm hoping this helps with the dealer networks so I don't have to ride down to the bowels of Miami when I need a firmware update.
2. To see where these E drive trains end up.

As an early adapter (#42), in the long run, does this help, hurt or does not effect the value of my Empulse R "pre" Polaris acquisition?

[Rano]

@csspring I really would have appreciated, if you wouldn´t had ordered 

Why? The Empulse is a great motorcycle and as far as I'm concerned, we'll supported.

Becouse if he would not have ordered, it still would be a brammo. Joke.
Of course the Empulse is great, everybody knows!

[Adan]

At the end of this article:

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-82556609/

there is the suggestion the Empulse model will not be continued.  And who would expect that it would, if the new "Brammos" are in fact going to be badged as Victory or Indian?  I would expect a remodel in the image of those brands.

This leaves me with a pessimistic feeling about how much longer the Empulse will be supported with parts and service expertise.  The business incentive for doing so will diminish fairly rapidly.

Oh well, my original goal was to get 3 years of heavy commuting use out of it.  I expect I'll make my goal and then some.  But I foresee the dark day when I hear the words, "sorry, they don't make that part anymore."

[skuzzle]

there is the suggestion the Empulse model will not be continued.  And who would expect that it would, if the new "Brammos" are in fact going to be badged as Victory or Indian?  I would expect a remodel in the image of those brands.

This leaves me with a pessimistic feeling about how much longer the Empulse will be supported with parts and service expertise.  The business incentive for doing so will diminish fairly rapidly.

I doubt we'll see the gearbox used again.  Does it take special clutch plates?

[Richard230]

My guess is that Polaris will retain the Brammo brand and that they will look for other sources for some of the chassis components (such as the frame) and motor, along with dumping the gearbox - if for no other reason than not wanting to be stuck with only one supplier for the device.

[Rano]

Tomorrow is Monday. Hope we get some news from Brammo.

[Richard230]

Tomorrow is Monday. Hope we get some news from Brammo.

Or from Polaris?   

[protomech]

As an employee in a small company that was just acquired, I wish the best for all of the Brammo employees. It is sad to see the Brammo chapter close, but another will begin soon. We'll see how it shapes up.

Ted Dillard @ InsideEVs did some actual journalism (real journalism is rare these days, he's been doing good work) and talked with Adrian Stewart.

Regardless of what started the rumor, the company has been hard at work (Stewart mentioned 60+ hour weeks) and it’s business as usual.

LA Times reports:

By summer, Polaris says, expect to see an electric Victory in dealerships.

100% my own speculation:
- The Empulse is dead. They'll finish selling whatever inventory remains after six months of a "summer fire sale" and shut down the design. NOS parts will be available for a time but Brammo probably won't be ordering any more from their suppliers.
- The Brammo brand is dead. It has a lot of brand equity in the EV enthusiast space. That space is very small (per Brammo and Zero's current sales level). The LA Times describes the cruiser as an "electric Victory" not a "Brammo cruiser".
- Brammo dealers are going to be left out in the cold. Polaris has a well-established dealer network. See also the branding note above.
- This summer is an incredibly short timeframe until release, even if development has been progressing for a year or more in secret. Question is, will the a Victory cruiser be based upon a scaled-up ~100V R powertrain or a productized 300+V RR powertrain? I'm leaning towards the latter.. I think Victory will be pitching a super-premium product, their current bike lineup is porky (638 lbs - 845 lbs, $13k up to $25k), and the Sevcon controllers top out at around 50 kW as with the relatively light Zero SR. Transmissions never really demonstrated significant benefit (sorry).

Stab in the dark: 100 kW, 25 kWh, 150+ miles highway, $35k. 850 pounds and a fairing design not too dissimilar to their existing bikes. 6 kW AC charging (4 hours) and CCS support.

I don't know what the real market for a $35k bike from an established manufacturer actually is - Brutus and Lightning aren't boasting of record sales - but motorcycles in the US are a luxury good, and Victory has nothing to line up price-wise against H-D's CVO bikes. I think Victory could sell quite a few of these bikes.. if they can out-accelerate all existing Victory and HD bikes at street-legal speeds and make the owners feel special then they'll do okay.

[Richard230]

I think Polaris will go with a sport bike when they come out with an electric model.  I don't think their cruiser base is ready to embrace electric yet.  Plus, they already have Victory cruisers competing with Indian cruisers, so why would they want to have another cruiser model competing with their other models?  But their first premium electric sport bike would make marketing sense. It would be a toe in the water and should sell well enough to let them gain experience with the technology, explore the electric market and see what they can do with the sportbike crowd.  But price would have to be kept to around $20K or less.  More than that I don't think the market is ready for yet.

[Shinysideup]

My post on Brammo's FB page and their response:

"Good for Brammo! What about us customers? Am I going to be able to get clutch plates and tranny gears and electronic parts on my Empulse in say, 3 or 4 years from now?"


"Hi Bill - Yes, rest assured you will. Polaris will honor all Brammo’s warranty and future parts availability obligations for Empulse and Enertia."

[kingcharles]

The two wheel EV market is with commuters.
Cruisers will stay a small niche for a while.
Commuters are new for Polaris, maybe they want to enter that market, maybe not. Let's wait and see.

[Richard230]

Rideapart picked up the story, but you won't learn anything new:

https://rideapart.com/articles/polaris-buys-brammo-motorcycles?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+HellForLeather+%28Hell+For+Leather%29

[katacrak]

I do not think that the best electric bike so far created, disappears. I believe that sports naked in Spain are the most sold, scooters city obviously first, but the problem is that in Europe with the restrictions of a license, makes it very difficult to make young people accessing the bike . The Brammo Empulse, in Spain, at 18 year old can driving with it, and that's a plus.

An electric motorcycle for travel today is impossible.

Brammo will continue as a brand, is a leading brand like tesla, not contaminated or marginalized within a traditional motorcycle brand, hopefully polaris know valuing this and continue manufacturing and developing the product

[roma258]

Whoah, I go on a long weekend to New Orleans and all hell breaks loose. Can't say that this is such a shocking development, the tea leaves have been brewing for a while. Fwiw, I have a couple pretty connected friends in the motorcycle industry who think that this is a great move for Brammo, and the Empulse platform, if not the Brammo name will move on. It's iteresting that poweretrain and the drivetrain component of the Brammo brand will remain independent. If that means they'll be a component supplier in the open market, that's probably the end of the Brammo motorcycle brand. If it means they'll remain an R&D arm of Polaris, while the big company handles the logistics of actually building and distributing the bikes, well we might see some pretty interesting stuff come down the line. Should be an interesting 6 months, Polaris doesn't seem to do anything half-ass.