Questions from a future Empulse owner

[Wim]

Greetings! (dramatic pause)
This is a message from the fu^uuuuutu_uuuuuure!!! (queue 80’s SciFi sound)


No, not really … but I guess that was a given



I haven’t bought a Brammo Empulse yet but I’m going to buy the new 2015 model as soon as it becomes available where I live in Europe.  According to my dealer this should be in somewhere in between 1 and 5 months.

The primary purpose for which I’d be using the bike is for the daily commute of between 70km(46miles) and 180km(110miles) combined, depending on which project I’m working on.
I like riding a motorcycle very much but judging from posts on several other motorcycle forums can’t really call myself anywhere near hardcore rider: outside of the commute I almost never drive the bike I have, I hardly ever use the sides of my tires (evidenced by the complete flat patch in the middle of my tire) and apparently I am a very careful driver since my last rear tire lasted me 22,000km (~13,500miles) and after 32,000km (~19,500miles) I have yet to spot significant wear on the front tire … both a Michelin RoadPilot (1).
As you can probably deduce from this, power isn’t really my concern, it’s more range and safety.

To know what I can expect I’d like to ask a few questions to people who drive them and not trying to give me a sales pitch

- My dealer said that the 2015 model is supposed to have 10% more range (due to optimized electronics) which is the reason why I’m waiting for that model.
Now my question is: with the 2013 and 2014 models, does the advertised range reflect an actual real world driving range or is more like the advertised MPG from cars that are never reached in real life conditions?

- From the specs I’ve seen that ABS is standard which is great. Are there any other safety mechanisms installed: Wheelie control, traction control, sliding control, … ?
I didn’t find much info regarding those.

- There is a normal and sport mode. If  I understand correctly,  the sport mode provides more power and more engine drag  while normal mode gives a smoother ride with less power and less engine drag.
Can these settings be customized in any way? I really don’t need much power so my personal requirements would probably be even lower than normal mode on the other hand I’d like a higher engine drag for increased regeneration … thus less braking in city traffic and increased range.

- As long as it’s not snowing or below freezing temperature I use my motorbike to go to work, I switch to my car at around 2~3°C (or 35.6~37.4°F). This close to the freezing point means that the city is already spraying salt on the road. Even after a freezing period there still remains a lot of salt on the road which gets easily splashed up.
How well can or can’t this bike deal with such conditions? Do I have little to worry about and can just wash the bike when the winter is over, do I better rinse it off every week or do I need to rinse/wash it every day to remove most or all traces of salt?
Also, how well are the electrical contacts of the battery protected from water + salt (read: electrically conducting) or simply just in case of heavy rainfall which is a regular occurrence where I live.


- The tech. specs speak of an integrated 3.5kW charger who can charge the battery pack in about 3.5hrs and from the mod pages I’ve seen that someone wants to mod his bike to have a 7.5kW charger http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=2462.0
Would the reverse also be possible where the integrated charger remains in the bike but you can also use/connect another charger which takes the usual 6~8 hrs (~1.7kW) to charge? It’s easier on the batteries and there’s a possibility I can use the lead-acid battery pack I charge during the day with my solar panels
In case you might be wondering … no, it’s not a single 12V car battery hooked up to a small solar panel. It’s a battery pack of about 26kWh from a decommissioned forklift truck … I’m guessing about 16~18kWh still remains. I have a degree in electronics so I can whip up the necessary convertors, but with lower current requirements the design becomes a lot easier.


I hope this post hasn’t become TL;DR
I’m really excited to become the proud owner of an awesome looking full electrical motorcycle with gearbox (don't really like the gearless EV motorcycles) and want to learn as much as possible about it


Kind regards,
Wim.

[kingcharles]

Hi Wim,

Let me try to answer some of your questions from my own experience riding an Empulse E1 model (lower torque electric motor than the R version).

First, I think (and apologies if I am wrong here) that your dealer still has no clue on the 2015 models and he is probably telling you his own wishes for the 2015 model. And to be honest I would wish for a lot more!!

Range
My own range experience: 1,5 weeks ago I travelled 125 kilometre on a single charge (between Eindhoven and Amsterdam). All on the A2 motorway at 90 kilometre per hour (very boring).
This was at 5 Celsius so in the summer maybe you can get a bit more.
But what helps my range is that I have a small windscreen that keeps the wind off my chest. I would recommend that as a accessory.

Features
There are no electronic driver assist features on the bike. Wheelies are not possible with my E1 so I don't worry about that. And the throttle control is so great that you can drive very safe without the electronics.
Go for a test ride and feel it yourself.

Power
Again, you can control the throttle so easy that even in sport mode you can accelerate very gently, but I like to have the power available when needed!

Corrosion
After a little more than 8000 kilometres my battery brackets are showing the first rust spots. No issues with electronics yet and my bike has seen lots of rain and salt (I ride also below freezing as long as it is no too slippery). I have also charged it at public charge stations in pouring rain and never had any problem.

Charging
Yes, the reverse is also possible and even very easy from a normal socket, just buy the right charge cable like this one: http://charge-amps.com/spark/
From a public charge point it could be more difficult to achieve but I do not know. Maybe it could become a software feature on the bike itself.

Go test ride one and maybe get a good deal now. To be honest I think 2015 models may not be in Europe for another year at least. It took Brammo 2 years to get the Empulse to Europe. Polaris may take 1,5...

[roma258]

The 2015 model is very much up in the air at this point. If you want an Empulse, I'd just get a 2014 and not even worry about it. Also too, no ABS, TC or any other electronics...which you have to admit is pretty ironic 

[Shinysideup]

Yes, I've found the published range figures to be fairly accurate, all depending on the position of your right wrist. I count on a conservative figure of 70 miles of range for mixed highway and city riding. 80 to 100 miles of all city. And a measured 58 miles at a constant 75 mph . This is for the Empulse R at 50 - 60F temps, with a windscreen.

A windscreen will boost your stock range by around 10% at higher speeds.

Yes, from what I've read, the 2015 model's design hasn't been released and the press articles all say Polaris will produce them in their factory in the second half of this year. Much more vague than your dealer's prediction. I would guess that the 2015 version would have ABS so they can market it in Europe in 2016.

I find the Sport mode gives me more range, if I'm gentle with the throttle, because of the greater regen. If you wanted a more gentle curve than the Normal mode, you could install a smaller rear sprocket. Or you could just start off in a higher gear. (I usually use 2nd gear in the city.) AFAIK, the electronics are not user adjustable.

I've ridden in very heavy rains without problems. (The bike was designed in Oregon (not Washington -edit) state where it's very rainy.)

[frodus]

AFAIK the Bike was designed in Oregon.... But the same rainy thing applies.

And the controller could be adjusted if one knew how

[Shinysideup]

AFAIK the Bike was designed in Oregon.... But the same rainy thing applies.

Thanks for the correction: I will edit the post!

[Wim]

Hi Kingcharles,

First, I think (and apologies if I am wrong here) that your dealer still has no clue on the 2015 models and he is probably telling you his own wishes for the 2015 model. And to be honest I would wish for a lot more!!

I was afraid of that, hence my questions on this forum.

But what helps my range is that I have a small windscreen that keeps the wind off my chest. I would recommend that as a accessory.

The windscreen is a must-have for me and already included in the RFQ I've sent to the dealer. I asked for the biggest widest screen that still fits on the bike (without taking away too much of the esthetics of course).

Other options I've asked are hand protectors (they said a set from KTM should fit well), Xenon headlight and topcase

Wheelies are not possible with my E1 so I don't worry about that.

Well, if the advertised torque in 1st gear is anywhere near accurate I presume you can almost make the bike do a standing 360° flip if you yank the throttle, 880Nm is f***** huge!

Go for a test ride and feel it yourself.

I'm definitly taking a test ride as soon as the weather significantly improves. The dealer already invited me for one. I even got a friend interested, I very much doubt he's going to buy one but he likes the whole concept nonetheless.

Power
Again, you can control the throttle so easy that even in sport mode you can accelerate very gently, but I like to have the power available when needed!

That's good news. I'm not used to high powered bikes.

Corrosion
After a little more than 8000 kilometres my battery brackets are showing the first rust spots. No issues with electronics yet and my bike has seen lots of rain and salt (I ride also below freezing as long as it is no too slippery). I have also charged it at public charge stations in pouring rain and never had any problem.

Well, I usually do around 20.000 to 30.000km a year (~12.500 to 18.500 miles) so I'd really hate to see rust spots after only 6~8 months.
Perhaps a semi-regular coating of S100 may help http://www.fc-moto.de/S100-Corrosion-Protectant

About the rain, I was more thinking of the water it catches (or doesn't catch) in places that shouldn't see any water while driving in a downpour. but the comment from Shinysideup answered that.

Charging
Yes, the reverse is also possible and even very easy from a normal socket, just buy the right charge cable like this one: http://charge-amps.com/spark/
From a public charge point it could be more difficult to achieve but I do not know. Maybe it could become a software feature on the bike itself.

OOOOooooh, that is VERY good news!! The charging amps are selectable on the the handle and I can also opt for 100V with it. This means with the lowest amps the converter needs to be capable of either roughly 1.5kW (240V) or 600W (100V)
... although the latter would take me 20hrs to charge, best go for the 1.5kW which takes 'only' 8.5 hours.

[Wim]

The 2015 model is very much up in the air at this point. If you want an Empulse, I'd just get a 2014 and not even worry about it. Also too, no ABS, TC or any other electronics...which you have to admit is pretty ironic 

Awwww ... no ABS? I thought I saw that mentioned somewhere?!?!

 

[Wim]

Yes, I've found the published range figures to be fairly accurate, all depending on the position of your right wrist. I count on a conservative figure of 70 miles of range for mixed highway and city riding. 80 to 100 miles of all city. And a measured 58 miles at a constant 75 mph . This is for the Empulse R at 50 - 60F temps, with a windscreen.

A windscreen will boost your stock range by around 10% at higher speeds.

Might need to adjust my driving style, on the highway in free flowing traffic I often find myself doing 85 to 90 mph. (got a few speeding tickets to prove it    )
For the current project I'm doing it's 15 miles city and then another 25 highway. So without a daytime charge at work I won't make it back home.

Yes, from what I've read, the 2015 model's design hasn't been released and the press articles all say Polaris will produce them in their factory in the second half of this year. Much more vague than your dealer's prediction. I would guess that the 2015 version would have ABS so they can market it in Europe in 2016.

2016, just like kingcharles said... Bummer
But to be honest, I don't want one without ABS anymore. I've notice the police is very lenient regarding bikes driving in a gray area of what is allowed (bus lanes, crossing a full white line to pass traffic, driving on hatched road markings,  ...) and within certain limits lane splitting is legal where I live. Also we don't really have the concept of jaywalking being punishable by lawn (again within certain limits) so I had a few cases where a pedestrians are showing up virtually out of nowhere to cross the street while I was passing traffic on the left side.

This resulted in several emergency stops in the two years I have my motorbike drivers license.
Some of those stops resulted in a bobbing front wheel. So far I managed to keep my bike upright, except for once which was the same week I got my permanent motorbike drivers license... luckily I wasn't driving that fast then so except for a few scratch marks on my exhaust nothing really bad happened.

I know that this is due to my breaking technique not being ...euhm ... optimal. I'm working on my techniques but I really want to have some backup on hand in case I mess up. I prefer being laughed at for wanting ABS than having my face scraped off because I lack experience.

If you wanted a more gentle curve than the Normal mode, you could install a smaller rear sprocket. Or you could just start off in a higher gear. (I usually use 2nd gear in the city.) AFAIK, the electronics are not user adjustable.

Will keep the smaller sprocket in mind, thanks.

Also did I read correctly in some post (no idea anymore which one) that neutral is between 2nd and 3rd and not between 1st and 2nd because you hardly need 1st anyway?

[Shinysideup]

Wim wrote: "Also did I read correctly in some post (no idea anymore which one) that neutral is between 2nd and 3rd and not between 1st and 2nd because you hardly need 1st anyway?"

Yes it is, but I'm not sure why. I just use 1st for very slow stop and go traffic, for braking down the steep hills of San Francisco, and of course an occasional hole shot against another bike.

Wim wrote: "Well, if the advertised torque in 1st gear is anywhere near accurate I presume you can almost make the bike do a standing 360° flip if you yank the throttle, 880Nm is f***** huge!"

Yes it can: I read that the early prototypes were throwing the Brammo test riders off the back! I'm sure the sight of that wasn't very attractive to their attorneys!

I think the 880 NM figure is for PEAK torque at 5000 rpm. Thankfully, the delivery of torque is modified into an increasing curve by software and isn't fully available until 4500 rpm, if I remember correctly. It IS quite powerful AND quite controllable.

If you're not used to powerful bikes, I'd advise starting in Normal mode and 2nd or 3rd gear until you get used to everything else about the bike, especially not pulling the clutch lever when you stop, nor using it when you start up. Then you can try 1st gear in Normal mode, working your way up to 1st gear on Sport mode.

The E1's acceleration is not as "hang-on-to-the-handlebars" as the R version, but totally capable of handling city traffic.

As far as concern with ABS, I had to do a very serious emergency stop from 40 mph and the brakes are really, really good. The front tire chattered a little bit and I had to somewhat let up on the rear brake to control the rear tire's sliding, but everything was predictable and I didn't come anywhere close to losing control. If you don't get ABS, just practice emergency stops in a safe setting until your muscle memory is comfortable with the bike's characteristics at slowly increasing speeds. ABS is great for gravel, snow, even rain, but if you acquire good braking modulation skills, even these situations can be handled. By the way, choosing ABS is, in my opinion, NOT a silly decision!

[JeffK]

I'm riding trough snow and ice...
I covered the bike in ACF-50 just like my other bikes.
It's for airplanes, but works great on bikes too.

Must say the Empulse is pretty resistant against corrosion, there's no chrome and steel parts are mostly powdercoated.
The chain is taken care of with a I like to think this chain oiler extends range too 

When it is freezing, the Empulse can take 0.3 to 0.5 KW/h just to keep the batteries warm which has its effects on the range of course.

[Wim]

I'm riding trough snow and ice...
I covered the bike in ACF-50 just like my other bikes.
It's for airplanes, but works great on bikes too.

Must say the Empulse is pretty resistant against corrosion, there's no chrome and steel parts are mostly powdercoated.

Reading the info, ACF-50 seems to be better than S100, will try a can

The chain is taken care of with a [...] Pro-Oiler I like to think this chain oiler extends range too 

Don’t know if I’d go for the gps driven pro-oiler … but knowing my maintenance skills, a chain-oiler system is definitely something I’m putting on my wish-list.
note: my current bike has a drive shaft.

When it is freezing, the Empulse can take 0.3 to 0.5 KW/h just to keep the batteries warm which has its effects on the range of course.

While I still drive during cold weather, I’m never driving in freezing or snowing conditions so hopefully it won't consume too much

… one of the two primary reasons I'm not driving in such weather is because my wife would veto it by giving me a tender peck on the cheek followed by a swift and powerful knee-to-groin maneuver at which point she pick up the ignition-key from the floor where I’ll have undoubtedly dropped them a second earlier and hide it.

[Shinysideup]

"Don’t know if I’d go for the gps driven pro-oiler … but knowing my maintenance skills, a chain-oiler system is definitely something I’m putting on my wish-list.
note: my current bike has a drive shaft."

Search for Tutoro in this forum. I've got one of theirs and it works. Pretty simple and doesn't break the bank.

[protomech]

Wim wrote: "Well, if the advertised torque in 1st gear is anywhere near accurate I presume you can almost make the bike do a standing 360° flip if you yank the throttle, 880Nm is f***** huge!"

Yes it can: I read that the early prototypes were throwing the Brammo test riders off the back! I'm sure the sight of that wasn't very attractive to their attorneys!

I think the 880 NM figure is for PEAK torque at 5000 rpm. Thankfully, the delivery of torque is modified into an increasing curve by software and isn't fully available until 4500 rpm, if I remember correctly. It IS quite powerful AND quite controllable.

Apologies for posting late.

The 880Nm torque is wheel torque, NOT motor torque .. and it's specific to the Empulse R, the E1 is rather less. I recall reading that the Empulse photo shown in wheelie position was using a shorter gearing set that was being tested; the production bikes are very quick in first gear but they will not lift the front wheel barring extreme manipulation.

Wim, your riding schedule would be perfect for electric. I believe the Euro regulations that require ABS kick in this year.. so Brammo will need an ABS solution to continue to sell in Europe in the near future. I was surprised that ABS did not appear for the 2014 Empulse .. hopefully there will be some updates from Polaris re: 2015 plans, perhaps at or around the same time information on the Victory Charger becomes available.

[Shinysideup]

The 880Nm torque is wheel torque, NOT motor torque .. and it's specific to the Empulse R, the E1 is rather less. I recall reading that the Empulse photo shown in wheelie position was using a shorter gearing set that was being tested; the production bikes are very quick in first gear but they will not lift the front wheel barring extreme manipulation.

Thanks for clarifying WHEEL torque. I knew that but didn't state it.

As to the wheelie photo, a Brammo employee told me in person that it was achieved by goosing the software to deliver 10% more torque early in the curve. He commented that the software COULD deliver insanely much more than that, 150% if I remember correctly.

As others have done, I increased my rear sprocket from 38 teeth to 42 teeth and the front end will lift, but it is easily controllable. Personally, I have no interest in wheelies! I did it to get more efficient motor speed in stop-and-go traffic conditions. Other benefits: I can pretty much leave the bike in 2nd gear for most of my city driving and can actually use 6th gear on the highways.