Author Topic: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)  (Read 4794 times)

BrammoBrian

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2015, 12:09:44 AM »
will we see it at the eMotoRacing event at NOLA in late March?

More likely the Willow Springs or Sonoma event when you hit the West Coast.  Should be fun!

protomech

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2015, 11:18:33 AM »
Yes - HVR = High Voltage Racer. 

75kW is roughly an 8C discharge on a 9.33kWh pack.  High, but not unreasonable for a modern Lithium-ion cell. I would say that the standard Empulse pack gives a lot of options for reconfiguration - including the 84S 3P option.  Each module is 36 cells, with the standard configuration being 4S9P.  You can create a lot of voltage options with this module - by design.

Yes - the 6-speed transmission is identical to the production bike and the top speed is significantly improved over the stock bike.   8)

Good point. The modules can be configured in 4S9P, 6S6P, 9S4P, 12S3P, 18S2P, or 36S1P for different higher-voltage configurations.

Speculation: Brammo is already using Rinehart controllers on the RR. Rinehart PM100DX is well-suited for mid-voltage applications.. too bad it's still very expensive ($5k MSRP) and heavy (7 kg). It can drive a peak of up to 350A RMS, which produces 75 kW at 220V. 7 modules at 9S4P would give 233V .. so about right for this application.

75 kW from 9.3 kWh is about the same relative draw as the 2012 RR pulling around 120 kW from ~14 kWh.
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Ted Dillard

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2015, 09:10:12 AM »
Very true... we will continue to develop our drivetrain (battery, motor, inverter, transmission) technology through Racing as it has been a successful strategy to date. 
...

I'll provide more details as the 2015 race season develops and I determine if this bike is racing under a corporate banner or simply as my hobby outside of the office.  Stay tuned...

Since I'm here, I wanted to ask you a question on this post.  I'm not at all clear what you're saying here, and I know there's a lot of interest in the Brammo (/Polaris?) racing plans.

First it seems like you're saying that Brammo will continue with a Brammo "bannered" race team as part of drivetrain R/D.  But then you're saying you haven't determined if you're racing under the Brammo (presumably) corporate banner or it's your personal hobby. 

What am I missing? 

Shinysideup

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2015, 04:02:08 PM »
While I'm sure that Brian is fully capable of filling you in on what you're missing, I couldn't help but notice that the clarification you seek MAY be contained in the words, "if this bike is racing." 

As I read it, it is a particular bike that may be raced either corporately or privately, not the entire program.

But what do I know? I ain't no rocket surgeon.

Ted Dillard

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2015, 08:57:06 AM »
Yeah, I gave up on guessing what people were trying to say a long time ago, if I have the opportunity to actually ask. 

And I'm not afraid to ask the stupidest of questions, as a lot of you know.   :o

flar

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2015, 02:18:22 AM »
Very true... we will continue to develop our drivetrain (battery, motor, inverter, transmission) technology through Racing as it has been a successful strategy to date. 
...

I'll provide more details as the 2015 race season develops and I determine if this bike is racing under a corporate banner or simply as my hobby outside of the office.  Stay tuned...

Since I'm here, I wanted to ask you a question on this post.  I'm not at all clear what you're saying here, and I know there's a lot of interest in the Brammo (/Polaris?) racing plans.

First it seems like you're saying that Brammo will continue with a Brammo "bannered" race team as part of drivetrain R/D.  But then you're saying you haven't determined if you're racing under the Brammo (presumably) corporate banner or it's your personal hobby. 

What am I missing?

Just after the "..." ellipsis in the quote that you condensed were the key words:

This bike is my pet project

In other words, there is a Brammo racing program *and* Brian also has his own personal pet project bikes based on the Brammo hardware.  His pet bike which was sighted and spawned this thread may or may not be brought under the official corporate racing program in 2015.
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Ted Dillard

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2015, 05:56:49 AM »
I have pretty good reading comprehension, thanks.  :D

"the official corporate racing program in 2015".  What "official corporate racing program"?  Did Brammo announce that, or is that as speculative as it appears?  Is the Brammo racing program a real program, or is it simply Brammo backing and branding Brian's "pet project"?  ...and about a dozen more possible variations.

Simple question, really. 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2015, 06:20:50 AM by Ted Dillard »

flar

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2015, 07:16:43 AM »
There's a tab on Brammo's web site, a number of posts on their Facebook page, and an entire forum on here devoted to Brammo's efforts in their racing program (branded Team Icon Brammo in recent years) with the Empulse RR that Brian mentioned in his post.  That's their corporate effort.  It has involved professional riders like Steve Atlas, Eric Bostrom, Shane Turpin and Shelina Moreda (did I miss anyone?) in recent years.  It makes for some great reading.

They also sell the Empulse TTX, which is closely derived from the R, to a number of amateur racers (Arthur Kowitz for instance) and I've seen announcements of teaming up with some other race teams to race Brammo bikes in other series, but I didn't follow those too closely.

Brian has also raced on his own in the past (AFM for example) and has had a couple of project Empulse bikes (not RR's, but souped up R's and TTX versions).  He's talked about those efforts as well, but often buried in other posts about what the team was doing.  The bike picture that started this thread was another one of his more recent project bikes spotted at Thunderhill, and sounds like he's going a bit further than his previous personal project bikes.
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Ted Dillard

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2015, 07:41:57 AM »
I'm aware, thanks.  (Been following this stuff for a while.)  My question is regarding the 2015 season. 

As I said above, I don't like speculating. 

...giving up and sitting down now.  Thanks for playing.  :D

BrammoBrian

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2015, 10:17:39 AM »
I don't exactly understand the confusion here or why it's particularly relevant, but Flar has it mostly correct.  This bike is my pet project, which I contributed my own efforts and resources (money) to bring it to reality.  It is supported by Brammo in that they were aware of what I was doing and provided approval for me to proceed.  Of course, I tapped into resources at Brammo to help as well when needed, but it was not a part of a larger program nor was it constrained by a particular deadline for completion.  I would gladly provide Brammo, or anyone else for that matter, the opportunity to sponsor the bike and enter it into the various race opportunities. I think of it as being similar to Kenyon Kluge's (of Zero) K Squared Racing - http://www.ksquaredracing.com/.

Regarding the corporate racing plans - I cannot divulge any details on what Brammo or Polaris might choose to do or not to do.  The Racing Program has always been a pretty wrapper around our R&D efforts to develop battery and drivetrain technology.  If you don't believe that, then I'm sorry, but it is the truth.  Our current generation of production lithium-ion batteries and internal permanent magnet motors trace their histories through the Racing effort.  Whether this remains the best way to further develop technologies is a debate to be had at the top of the organization(s).

Meanwhile, I will continue to develop this Empulse HVR (High Voltage Racer) to the best of my abilities given the support and resource at my disposal.  Not because it's part of a greater plan - just because I'm an electric motorcycle enthusiast, I have more questions than I have answers, and I like racing.  8)

I hope that clarifies things.   :) 

Ted Dillard

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Re: Looks like they haven't sold ALL the Brammo bikes :)
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2015, 01:11:29 PM »
Ah, perfect.  Thanks so much.  That's kind of what it sounded like - especially since I know the racing bug has bit you hard.  :D 

The confusion is simply because, frankly, we're all grasping at straws for information on the racing program and it's of huge interest to readers and followers.  From what you initially said, some wishful thinking could read into it that the Empulse was still going to be produced as it is, and by Brammo, which runs counter to what the "official" word is from Polaris and the legal powers. 

It's relevant (to me anyway) to try to understand what racing is going to look like this year.  Is it going to be you and a few others like Arthur "privateering" it, or is Brammo going to be a sponsor, or is it Brammo's team, or is it Polaris' team, blah blah blah... 

'course, it doesn't help when the caption on the photo on the Brammo Facebook page reads "Brammo Race Team..." 

https://www.facebook.com/BrammoInc/photos/a.10151604812355443.1073741886.108820970442/10152565702160443/?type=1&theater


...hope that clears up the confusion on the confusion.   :o
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 05:40:37 PM by Ted Dillard »