Which model, and why?

[Shane]

I was wondering what everyone's opinion was on which model Empulse they are, or would be, interested in.  I know when the Empulse was first announced I was leaning towards the 10.0, because any extra range is good (right?).  But after thinking about it for a few days I came to the realization that most "rides" in my area are longer, end to end, than 100 miles.  So I could pay the $4000 extra and still not get to experience most rides, or I could save the money and use this as an around town bike, flitting out to some of the closer county roads or trailering it to one of the racetracks around here for some serious riding.

So now I'm considering the 6.0, but all the people I have talked to so far only seem interested in the 10.0.  Any thoughts?

[Phantom]

I am leaning toward the 8.0 Empulse over the 10.0 model. The Enertia I already own meets my commuting needs, but the 8.0 would be roughly double the range I get now. I hope the 8.0 could be modified to the 10.0 in the future with not much trouble. 

I am very comfortable with the weight of the Enertia, and a preliminary look at the specs would suggest that the 8.0 would weigh about the same.

My cost still needs to pass the WAB (Wife-approved budget) process and I think the higher my cost is above $10,000, the harder it will be to convince her it is the model I should buy.

I'd like the 10.0, but I will probably get 8.0 after all the factors are considered.

[Shane]

It would be nice if upgrading in the future was just a matter of popping in replacement batteries and a software update.  I hope the whole controller assembly wouldn't have to be replaced.

[protomech]

It would be nice if upgrading in the future was just a matter of popping in replacement batteries and a software update.  I hope the whole controller assembly wouldn't have to be replaced.

That's what I'm hoping for as well. Better yet would be an upgrade path with a higher capacity or lighter-weight battery pack from Brammo in 3-5 years. I'd love to see some more transparency, or at least a declaration of intent.

I'm looking at the Empulse from a couple of perspectives: as a commuter bike, and as a weekend rider.

My typical commute is about 24 miles at 35-55 mph, depending on afternoon activities it can be as long as 40 miles at 35-75 mph. I was more than a little uncomfortable with Brammo's 40 mile claim with the Enertia and its 3.1kwh battery pack; 60 miles from a 6.0kwh pack is a bit more realistic. The 6.0 would be adequate for most days; a higher capacity battery would give a bit of insurance for unexpected detours or degraded capacity over time.

I often ride weekends with a small group of friends: we'll ride 30-50 miles out and then back. Often one leg is highway, the other leg is back roads and twisty bits. Sometimes we stop to eat at our destination, and I could perhaps grab a kwh or two of charge from the proprieter. The 6.0 might make a shorter trip with a charge during a break; the 10.0 could probably handle a longer trip with a charge, or a shorter trip without recharging. In fairness, we often stop to refuel the gas bikes partway through the trip as well.

Overnight travel is also a mixed bag. Common overnight trips that I might take on the bike are 80, 120, and 180 miles one-way at 55-75 mph. The 10.0 is probably barely adequate for the shortest of the trips, depending on highway power requirements.

Since I have a gas bike and a car, it's not critical to have one vehicle that does everything. So maybe a 6.0 empulse as a commuter is the way to go, and hope for continued improvements in battery technology for the future.

[Kelly Olsen]

I want an ENERTIA 8.0.

Sorry, I know, this is all about the Empulse, and I admit she's young, sexy and thrilling, but I'm sticking with my first girlfriend. I just want her to be able to last longer in the saddle.

EDIT UPDATE:

I said this because I need an upright riding position because of a neck issue. I just read in the thread "Commuting Model" an older post by Phantom that there is a plan for an upright configuration for the Empluse.

http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=262.0

I don't see how this can work, but I'm not well versed in the subject of bike design. I just hope it is true and if I can sit on an Empulse like I can sit on the Enertia, then I'm an Empluse 8.0 buyer. Anybody have any further confirmation or be able to explain how this might be achieved?

I might not be sticking with my first girlfriend after all. Sorry, honey.

[Shane]

@Kelly.  Brammo is reporting the Empulse will have 43mm forks.  If that is the case, and if they do not revise the top triple clamp to accept a standard handlebar, you can easily find handlebar risers on the web.  A quick search of Google for the term " bar riser 43mm" turned up a bunch of stuff.  So that would be one way to go.  Of course, if Brammo doesn't modify the top clamp to accept a standard handlebar, that just opens a third party market for such a thing.  If someone else doesn't make one right off, I will.

The Empulse is constantly being compared right now with the SV650.  That shipped (at least in '99) with a high standard bar, and I really enjoyed the comfort and leverage that afforded me.  I did eventually opt for a lower set of clip-ons, but that was an aesthetic choice; one of the reasons I bought the SV in the first place was for a low-cost custom fabrication platform, and I needed lower bars to accommodate my fairings.  I'd go back to a high bar in an instant though.

[lienly]

agree this nice proposal which is what I hope too.
buy 6.0 and can upgrade to 8.0/10.0 later by user.

to save about 40% import taxes here, I believe 6.0 will be most popular.

It would be nice if upgrading in the future was just a matter of popping in replacement batteries and a software update.  I hope the whole controller assembly wouldn't have to be replaced.

[protomech]

Notes from recent trips..

My typical commute is about 24 miles at 35-55 mph, depending on afternoon activities it can be as long as 40 miles at 35-75 mph. I was more than a little uncomfortable with Brammo's 40 mile claim with the Enertia and its 3.1kwh battery pack; 60 miles from a 6.0kwh pack is a bit more realistic. The 6.0 would be adequate for most days; a higher capacity battery would give a bit of insurance for unexpected detours or degraded capacity over time.

Rode the bike in to work today, will go home -> work -> friend's house -> home. 6.0 kwh is probably fine here. It's starting to get nicer here (hot / humid in AL), even temps in the 90s are good riding weather if it's not too humid. Commuted 3 days last week on the bike, probably do similar here. e-bike would be have less engine heat too, great for the summer maybe not so great for the winter

I often ride weekends with a small group of friends: we'll ride 30-50 miles out and then back. Often one leg is highway, the other leg is back roads and twisty bits. Sometimes we stop to eat at our destination, and I could perhaps grab a kwh or two of charge from the proprieter. The 6.0 might make a shorter trip with a charge during a break; the 10.0 could probably handle a longer trip with a charge, or a shorter trip without recharging. In fairness, we often stop to refuel the gas bikes partway through the trip as well.

We rode this weekend, about 115 miles (home -> meet -> ride -> meet back for dinner -> return home). Half the distance was highway at 60-70+ mph, half was back roads and mountain roads at 35-65 mph. I imagine that I would not have been comfortable on that route with an e-bike less than 15 kwh capacity. Had to turn back at one point when one guy ran low on fuel, ~90 mile range on a 2 gallon tank. Charging over dinner would be a fantastic option; even a 30 minute quick charge 20% -> 80% would be very helpful. Battery tech / quick charge just isn't there yet for planning pleasure rides without considering the e-bike's range, but you could certainly design an enjoyable route with that in mind (home -> meet -> ride -> eat -> return).

[1lesscar]

The cheapest one. Because I am poor. I will add batteries later. 

[Richard230]

In my case the 10.0 should fit my needs. Most of my local riding is under 80 miles, such as riding to my daughter's home, riding to Alice's Restaurant and riding to my favorite hiking spots. I have learned that having a little extra range is always a good thing, especially after the batteries get a little old and tired.

[baikinman]

Empulse 10.0 attracts me, but only because Brammo doenst make a model similar to the Buell Ulysses.  But if they did make one, I would imagine that the more experienced and mature riders would go for it.  If I cant keep up with CBR or FZR, then I at least need to a comfortable commuter.

[Brammofan]

I wasn't familiar with the Ulysses - seems similar to the BMW GS series of bikes.  Yeah, I could definitely go with something like that, if/when they get around to offering it. 

I'm interested in seeing how the Empulse evolves from the concept bike to the production bike.  Handlebar height, peg placement, seat height/width, it all makes a difference. 

I rode a friend's BMW GS 650 while he took my Enertia for a spin.  If you're interested in his take, I wrote about it on my blog.

I also did a short video of it:

[protomech]

I'm not sure electric is ready for adventure or touring biking until there's some kind of answer to the jerry can - or fast recharge is ubiquitous and reasonable onboard energy storage is much higher.

[baikinman]

I was thinking that not much changes in the powertrain, merely some ergonomics.  I still want speed and range.  I just don't want to lay on the tank anymore.  I'm more refined in my older age!

[Silex]

I'm with protomech on this one. I decided to opt for the 6.0 and plan to upgrade batteries as necessary as costs lower and newer technologies develop. This should also prove an effective route to take as the included batteries outlive their useful life. I also have a history of purchasing newer technology at the lowest price point. This way I can be an early adopter without feeling like I'm spending more money for a comparable, proven product. The only downside is that I am unsure if the advertised mileage can make it 70 miles (60 miles highway) to visit my parents. I've read the 10.0, with gingerly driving, can go 130mi which is leading me to believe that the 30% increase applies to all the models. This means the 6.0 might theoretically go up to 80mi. Can anybody confirm? Sure, this can also apply to the opposite end of the spectrum when you're rally on the gas, but lets focus on range here, hehe. Although I'm also curious how low it can get as well.

It would be nice if upgrading in the future was just a matter of popping in replacement batteries and a software update.  I hope the whole controller assembly wouldn't have to be replaced.

That's what I'm hoping for as well. Better yet would be an upgrade path with a higher capacity or lighter-weight battery pack from Brammo in 3-5 years. I'd love to see some more transparency, or at least a declaration of intent.

I'm looking at the Empulse from a couple of perspectives: as a commuter bike, and as a weekend rider.

My typical commute is about 24 miles at 35-55 mph, depending on afternoon activities it can be as long as 40 miles at 35-75 mph. I was more than a little uncomfortable with Brammo's 40 mile claim with the Enertia and its 3.1kwh battery pack; 60 miles from a 6.0kwh pack is a bit more realistic. The 6.0 would be adequate for most days; a higher capacity battery would give a bit of insurance for unexpected detours or degraded capacity over time.

I often ride weekends with a small group of friends: we'll ride 30-50 miles out and then back. Often one leg is highway, the other leg is back roads and twisty bits. Sometimes we stop to eat at our destination, and I could perhaps grab a kwh or two of charge from the proprieter. The 6.0 might make a shorter trip with a charge during a break; the 10.0 could probably handle a longer trip with a charge, or a shorter trip without recharging. In fairness, we often stop to refuel the gas bikes partway through the trip as well.

Overnight travel is also a mixed bag. Common overnight trips that I might take on the bike are 80, 120, and 180 miles one-way at 55-75 mph. The 10.0 is probably barely adequate for the shortest of the trips, depending on highway power requirements.

Since I have a gas bike and a car, it's not critical to have one vehicle that does everything. So maybe a 6.0 empulse as a commuter is the way to go, and hope for continued improvements in battery technology for the future.