Author Topic: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments  (Read 3727 times)

Brammofan

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Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« on: September 17, 2015, 08:33:16 AM »
http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/09/16/the-electric-superbike-the-end-of-the-beginning/

This is written by Michael Uhlarik, the designer of the Amarok racing motorcycle. He could have done a little more research, as his reports of Brammo's demise are greatly exaggerated.  Make sure to read Brian Wismann's comment after the article. So far, Uhlarik hasn't responded, but I'm hoping he does.  In the meantime, pop your popcorn and prepare for the drama.
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roma258

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 09:55:03 AM »
I'm not in that industry, so what do I know, but his point about organic growth seems well made. Zero's approach of gradual model evolution vs. Brammo's attempted leap from Enertia right to Empulse seems to have carried the day in the end. But for a motorcycle designer who seems focused on the technology's viability, it seems strange to not discuss the current state of the tech. What are the charge time for DC fast chargers, what kind of battery capacity are we looking at, what's on the horizon? What are the actual costs?

Richard230

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 10:31:22 AM »
I found it an interesting article, but I sort of wished they also had mentioned the Electric Motorsport GPR-S, which preceded the Brammo Enertia to the market by a couple of years and had similar range and performance - if not similar build quality and reliability.
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

roma258

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 11:42:50 AM »
http://canadamotoguide.com/2015/09/16/the-electric-superbike-the-end-of-the-beginning/

This is written by Michael Uhlarik, the designer of the Amarok racing motorcycle. He could have done a little more research, as his reports of Brammo's demise are greatly exaggerated.  Make sure to read Brian Wismann's comment after the article. So far, Uhlarik hasn't responded, but I'm hoping he does.  In the meantime, pop your popcorn and prepare for the drama.
I also think it's interesting that Brian has stated a couple times that the IOM TT effort was basically a Brammo undertaking, even though Victory has clearly made a big to-do about it. I'm not doubting that at all, just surprised the Polaris didn't make Brammo sign some kind of a non-disclose agreement about these things. Also, how can they still be developing motorcycles when their motorcycle business has been bought out? Anyway, this just inside baseball stuff for us to geek out over- speaking off, Michael Uhlarik responded to Brian's post.

Richard230

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 02:54:18 PM »
Brian sure didn't waste any time responding to that article.  ;)
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Consultec

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 11:56:27 PM »
nice reply by Brian.
2014 Empulse R (Red), 2010 Enertia (Burnt Orange), 2000 BMW R1200C, 2010 Enertia (Red) coming for wife.

Ted Dillard

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2015, 06:26:46 AM »
Why do I even read the stuff over here?   ;D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

I fail to see how the title is clickbait, either.  It is, in fact, the "end of the beginning" of the market.  That's precisely why I chose this time period to start the book - we're entering a new phase in the electric motorcycle story.

Seriously, though, I'd appreciate anyone pointing out inaccuracies in what he's claiming as fact - not judgement calls (like "Brammo failed") 'cause I can't find much that he got wrong, according to my research and records. 

I'll put it out here, too, since I know Brian reads this stuff.  Fine, you have issues with his description of your company's current status?  You don't like his point of view?  Great, but there's no reason to make it a personal comment on his work with Amarok.  I've seen Brian do that to me, and to several others on the forums - just because we don't agree, or take issue with several instances of reality not matching up with claims (from a current, but also historical perspective) doesn't mean we're angry garage builders (as you called me), or bitter at our own less-than-successful efforts (as you accused Michael: "I believe that you’re simply venting your own frustration to have any significant impact in this market with Amarock…"). 

It's unprofessional, and frankly, any good marketing guy's nightmare - having a company officer weigh in on the forums at a personal level.  Besides that?  It simply makes you look like the bitter, frustrated party...  especially after what we've witnessed in the last 2 years. 
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 08:29:15 AM by Ted Dillard »

roma258

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2015, 11:23:27 AM »
Why do I even read the stuff over here?   ;D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

I fail to see how the title is clickbait, either.  It is, in fact, the "end of the beginning" of the market.  That's precisely why I chose this time period to start the book - we're entering a new phase in the electric motorcycle story.

Seriously, though, I'd appreciate anyone pointing out inaccuracies in what he's claiming as fact - not judgement calls (like "Brammo failed") 'cause I can't find much that he got wrong, according to my research and records. 

I'll put it out here, too, since I know Brian reads this stuff.  Fine, you have issues with his description of your company's current status?  You don't like his point of view?  Great, but there's no reason to make it a personal comment on his work with Amarok.  I've seen Brian do that to me, and to several others on the forums - just because we don't agree, or take issue with several instances of reality not matching up with claims (from a current, but also historical perspective) doesn't mean we're angry garage builders (as you called me), or bitter at our own less-than-successful efforts (as you accused Michael: "I believe that you’re simply venting your own frustration to have any significant impact in this market with Amarock…"). 

It's unprofessional, and frankly, any good marketing guy's nightmare - having a company officer weigh in on the forums at a personal level.  Besides that?  It simply makes you look like the bitter, frustrated party...  especially after what we've witnessed in the last 2 years.
Not that he needs it, but I'll come to Brian's defense here. I've worked in two relatively high profile Government agencies for most of my adult career, the kinds of places that people like to take shots at and offer all sorts of suggestions of how they could run things so much better. I think it's safe to say that 99% of the time people have no idea to what's going on inside the walls, the kind of work that people are putting in, or understand the nuanced reasons for certain actions that may not make sense from the outside, but are necessary choices that need to be made. So to hear your stuff getting dragged through the mud in the press, especially when with little to no policy background does grade. Now obviously someone like Michael Uhlarick has a better grasp than your typical journalist, but he still does not have the inside view of what's going on in Brammo or any of these other places. And for someone like Brian who's rightfully proud of, say, the IOM effort, I bet it hits a nerve. In the end, I'm sure cooler heads will prevail and we'll move on to the next thing :)

Ted Dillard

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2015, 11:37:36 AM »
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand his passion, and the others on the team I know personally.  Don't forget, we both were on Elmoto.net "back in the day".  Brammo started early on pushing the social media and forums as a way to get "free" exposure (a term I loathe and despise, knowing how much time and effort it takes to do it...), but as the criticism mounted and the passion increased, it became a textbook case of how it can go wrong. 

They have marketing and PR people for a reason - and they are really good at understanding how what you say is perceived.  Not so much the guys you describe behind the walls, precisely because of what they know and their personal involvement.  (As an aside, I once had a sit-down with a guy about his marketing plan.  When I asked him if he had one, he said "Of course we do."  When I asked him what it was, he said "Simply to be the best".  That's passion talking, not marketing, and it's meaningless when you're talking to customers.)

A marketing guy would have probably responded in much the same way - asserting that Brammo is not dead, but done it in a far less personal way, and without the insult.  What's there to gain in that? 

What's interesting to me is that Zero (in the context of this story and thread) has never, with the exception of Luke (liveforphysics) had much of a presence in the social and forum circles.  As far as I understand, Luke was asked to scale back his activity once his role with Zero became more formal, in fact. 

Whatever...  what do you call the opposite of "preaching to the choir"?  :D
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 11:43:19 AM by Ted Dillard »

Shinysideup

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2015, 02:00:29 PM »
Whatever...  what do you call the opposite of "preaching to the choir"?  :D

"Scolding the ignorant"? ;)

Ted Dillard

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2015, 02:38:19 PM »
...talkin' to the hand?   8)

flar

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2015, 04:22:18 PM »
I fail to see how the title is clickbait, either.  It is, in fact, the "end of the beginning" of the market.  That's precisely why I chose this time period to start the book - we're entering a new phase in the electric motorcycle story.

Clickbait is a loaded term.  Some simply use it as "a link designed to make you want to click" and others use it for "fluff useless articles that are advertised via a link that seems to indicate there is something more there, but the actual web site is pathetic".

This article definitely had quite a number of points to make about the evolution of the industry.  The title was very strong, and the graphic (which was the first I saw/heard of the article) is even stronger and makes a rather alarming "E-Bikes are a scam" statement that I don't think the author really meant - it was more of a straw man that he analyzes the pros and cons of rather than the point of the article.  However, coming off of those 2 indicators can leave someone skeptical about the partiality of the article (at least until, and only if, the reader realizes the overall content is more about the industry shifting into a new phase).

So, is this "clickbait"?  I'd only use that term for it in its less judgmental ("please click me!") sense of the word.

Quote
Seriously, though, I'd appreciate anyone pointing out inaccuracies in what he's claiming as fact - not judgement calls (like "Brammo failed") 'cause I can't find much that he got wrong, according to my research and records.

There were a few facts in the section comparing the Zero to the Empulse R that don't match the specs, but nothing earth-shattering.  It would have been nice to mention the higher top speed, especially the sustainable top speed of the R there for balance, but again, that doesn't necessarily relate to the eventual points of the article about the industry, though it does sharpen the digs made at Brammo's operations.  (One more nit - there was never any product called the "2013 Zero SR".  That inaccuracy makes it appear that the R and the SR were same-year competitors when the SR was a year after the R.)
Current bikes: 2013 Brammo Empulse R, 2005 BMW R1200RT
Prior bikes: 1988 Honda Hawk GT, 1997 BMW F650

Ted Dillard

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2015, 04:25:40 AM »
Yeah, I know what clickbait is.  I'm a writer, remember?  :D 

This ain't clickbait.  It's actually a pretty concise call on where we're at, today, in the industry.  It is the end of the "beginning".  If you call a title that "makes you want to click" clickbait, you just called every title ever written on the web clickbait. 

It's a great title, in fact. And a great piece.

http://insideevs.com/electric-superbike-end-beginning/

Thanks for the detail corrections.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 04:28:19 AM by Ted Dillard »

Virtually Yours

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2015, 04:54:09 AM »
Why do I even read the stuff over here?   ;D

Why are you here? Do you own a Brammo? Do you ride? I've read everything you wrote in this forum, some of your articles and every time I come away with the impression that you're an asshole. Even if you have any solid facts to share you still present yourself as an asshole.

It's unprofessional, and frankly, any good marketing guy's nightmare - having a company officer weigh in on the forums at a personal level.

Speaking about being unprofessional. It seems that Brian responded to that article for the same reason I'm responding to you, asshole. Don't be an unprofessional asshole.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 05:06:24 AM by Virtually Yours »
Actually Mine,
#42
Empluse R

Ted Dillard

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Re: Clickbait titled article, but be sure to read the comments
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2015, 05:17:03 AM »
LMAO

Awesome.  Good job. 

I looked up your profile, just out of curiosity.  So yeah, unlike you I've ridden for all of my adult life, since my first bike in 1970.  I built my own electric motorcycle before I could even buy a Brammo or Zero.  I've built several, now.  Unlike you, I'm not a noob.  I know more about the construction and design of your bike than you do, or likely ever will.  I know a whole lot of people who've worked really hard - some of them from Brammo - getting electric motorcycles to the point that you could run to your dealer and buy your precious Empulse, and I hope you enjoy it thoroughly. 

You can go ahead and call me names, but for all the "asshole" shit you want to spew, I've never insulted a member here as you just did, and if you think calling out fact against bullshit is being an asshole, then you're right.  I'm an asshole. 

I'll leave it to Harry to call whether he wants to leave your contribution standing...  if so, I'll leave you to it. Thanks for the morning entertainment.

...funny, I got back on this group to respond to the post "Why the Brammo hate?"   ;D
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 05:48:21 AM by Ted Dillard »