Brammo Empulse R versus Victory Empulse TT, which is a better deal?

[turbotortuga]

Guys,

     I am on the fence and could use some insight from some actual owners out there. I am in the market for an Empulse and as such, I have negotiated a deal on a new Victory Empulse TT at basically 11K out the door minus the Federal Tax incentive, which would put me right around $9300 for it. However, I don't know if it is better in the long run to buy one new, or to buy a slightly used 2013-2014 Brammo Empulse R with some miles on it for $6000-7500, and save a few thousand dollars but w/o a manufacturers warranty to fall back on. I have the money for either, but I do prefer the styling of the Brammo version better than the Victory version, but I understand that a warranty on these bikes can be a lifesaver. If it were you, would you pick up a brand new one for $9300 or a slighty used 2013 with some miles on it for $6000? Thanks for viewing.

[skuzzle]

First question you need to answer: What's the value of a warranty if there is no one trained to work on the bike, or parts take half the warranty period to arrive?  Will the shop service the bike is sells?

Second... Are you comfortable with the TT depreciation?  In a year or two you might have a boat anchor if Polaris comes out with a new model (not likely), or drops production of the TT.  (Note Polaris stock is down about 40% for the last year... the TT is not a priority).

I'm not sure I can recommend a used one either.   Why not a few grand more for a Zero S?

[roma258]

If you see an Empulse R for $6k, I'd say go for it. Otherwise, $9.3k for a Victory Empulse TT is a heck of a deal. You get a bigger battery, lighter wheels, better seat and smoother tranny. Don't worry about the warranty too much, these bikes are pretty robust imo.

[Shinysideup]

Don't worry about the warranty too much, these bikes are pretty robust imo.

+1.

If the Empulse has "some miles", it's probably gone through the period where any assembly issues may have arisen, and most of the components have stood up well.

I was an early adopter and had a few warranty fixes but those items were promptly redesigned.

Now, I'm at 36K and other than brake pads, chain/sprockets, and tires, have had to replace only the rear wheel bearings. Oh, and the steering head bearings due to the horrible potholes of San Francisco streets.

[turbotortuga]

     I have looked at the Zero SR as well and it has some very attractive features (ABS, low maintenance belt drive, more hp/torque). I recently sold my 2011 Ducati Monster 796, which was my first bike, and the Empulse R has the same hp/torque as that bike, which was more than enough for me for the street. I also prefer the styling and aesthetics of the Brammo Empulse R versus the Zero SR. But the Zero dealership network is sparse, very sparse. I am military so I move around a lot, and if I happened to get stationed 200 miles or more to the nearest Zero dealership that is going to be an issue.

      I think I will wait for a 2013-2014 Empulse R and see if I can get it in the $6000-6500 range. A $6K boat anchor is not as painful as a $10K boat anchor, I suppose...

[frodus]

Where are you located now?

[turbotortuga]

Frodus,

     I am in Italy right now, but I will be in the States near the end if the month visiting family. Thanks.

[shayan]

I just got an Empulse TT for nearly the same price as what you have negotiated at the moment. I was contemplating between a used Brammo Empulse R vs a new TT. And i pretty much did not have a better deal for any used Brammo Empulse R so i went ahead with the TT. Havent ridden an Empulse R or a Zer but the TT is definitely a thrill to ride. I wanted an Empulse just for the great chassis it has with all the quality components.

So far i think my average range (mixed conditions 50-60% freeway rides) has been close to 90-100 miles in eco mode with some occasional sport mode temptations.

1st gear in sport mode gives the best possible acceleration that i could ask for so i dont see the need for an acceleration like Zero SR.

The reason i went for a TT anyways was that i got a brand new bike for around the same price as any used Brammo Empulse R's that were out there.

This might be the best option for u if ur looking for a used Brammo Empulse R (2014 with 850 miles on it): http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=3308.0

Cheers!

[roma258]

I just got an Empulse TT for nearly the same price as what you have negotiated at the moment. I was contemplating between a used Brammo Empulse R vs a new TT. And i pretty much did not have a better deal for any used Brammo Empulse R so i went ahead with the TT. Havent ridden an Empulse R or a Zer but the TT is definitely a thrill to ride. I wanted an Empulse just for the great chassis it has with all the quality components.

So far i think my average range (mixed conditions 50-60% freeway rides) has been close to 90-100 miles in eco mode with some occasional sport mode temptations.

1st gear in sport mode gives the best possible acceleration that i could ask for so i dont see the need for an acceleration like Zero SR.

The reason i went for a TT anyways was that i got a brand new bike for around the same price as any used Brammo Empulse R's that were out there.

This might be the best option for u if ur looking for a used Brammo Empulse R (2014 with 850 miles on it): http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=3308.0

Cheers!

Congrats on the new purchase! If you're actually getting 90-100 miles in mixed riding, that is seriously impressive! I get about 65 miles in mixed riding, mostly city, though I do ride pretty hard and in Sport mode. Would be interesting to see what I could get in eco mode and more conservative riding, but what fun is that?!

[shayan]

I like to keep it in eco and feel the bike as a totally different beast when i switch to the sport mode (and not the other way around!).
I do agree that this is more conservative and not too much fun. I tuck in for a little bit on the freeways and me being lighter also helps probably. I guess harder riding will bring it down to 80 miles. But 65 miles in city is really hard riding! That must surely be fun

I'll be getting an MRA RNB screen and i'll measure my average range and freeway range after i install it. Would be good to get a 10% increase in range

[Shinysideup]

I count on 70 miles of mixed. 100 city only. 60 on the highway. Doesn't the Victory version have slightly bigger battery capacity?

FWIW, I have found that Sport Mode gives me greater range, IF I'm able to tame my right wrist. I attribute this paradox to the much greater regenerative capture of energy when braking. My experience may be exceptional due to amount of riding I do on the famous hills of San Francisco, where first gear can keep the bike at 15 to 20 mph downhill without brakes. Fact: haven't changed front brake pads in 36K miles. Others have reported increased range in Sport Mode also. Mostly I reserve Normal Mode to give smoother results when riding 2-up, or as a "rain mode."

[shayan]

Sounds like a good idea. I live down in south San Jose and commute to downtown San Jose (about 6 miles one way with around 4 miles on the freeway), in eco mode and not being too very conservative, the bike uses up about 7% charge. I did higher speeds today on the freeway and maybe lost 8%. So i would say a 90-100 mile range under similar conditions 50% freeway and 50% city. I'll try leaving it in sport mode and try out being conservative and not so conservative and test that out.

And yes Victory i believe has a 10.4kW nominal capacity battery vs 9.3kW nominal Brammo. Sport mode on freeway probably wont make sense, but in the city yeah it does. I hope victory comes up with an app to tune these parameters like a zero.

[jazz999]

Personally, If I am buying new, I would go with a Zero S or SR 13.0, for 60+% more capacity, faster charging, warranty than the Empulse or Victory.   Plus, I am not that confident that Victory will succeed in selling these electric motorcycles where Zero has been doing this now for 10+ years.

On the flipside, if you can get a killer deal on a Brammo, I would go for that

[turbotortuga]

I am still on the fence. I found a 2013 Empulse R with 3K miles for $6500 on CycleTrader (is that even a killer enough deal?) but I am getting heartburn about picking it up because I am unsure of current and future support for the bike. Victory dealers are clueless about these bikes and therefore parts and support may disappear altogether in the near future. They don't really know how to even support the Empulse TT let alone a bike that predates it.

     This is the same feeling that I get when I think about a Zero SR. I am on the Electric-Motorcycles forum and those guys love the Zero's but always with the caveat that you must have a Zero dealer nearby. There is a dude on there who just blew his 4th on-board charger within the warranty period... how much is that going to cost after the warranty is over...? I want the Brammo, but if something happens, I want to be certain that it can be repaired and doesn't end up being a $6500 appliance that sits in my garage collecting dust...

     In addition, to get that faster charging that you mention you have to invest an additional $3000 to get the DigiNow Charger or $2K for the Zero Charge Tank (the latter of which only gives you the equivalent charging of an Empulse). However, to be fair, The Zero SR does end up being a different but somewhat superior bike in some respects. I have yet to ride one, so I am going to ride a new Empulse and a new SR and see if my opinion changes... 

[roma258]

It's a judgement call in the end. Would you be able to get a 3 year-old $18k bike for $6.5k if it wasn't an orphan? I don't know, probably not. We're all Brammo riders here, so obviously the people here thought it was worthwhile. Parts availability is going to be an issue, but thankfully with Victory doing at least 1 year run of the TT, they should be carrying parts that swap over for a while (I'm in the middle of waiting for a part now, let's see how it goes). There's definitely a risk in being an earlyish adopter in a boutique brand. But it is what it is. You either do it, or don't. Good luck!