Author Topic: Mine is Dead now too  (Read 1368 times)

frodus

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2017, 12:50:52 PM »
It's sad that it's come to this for people. No parts, no support, no way to keep the bikes going unless you can make your own parts I guess.

I forget where, but I heard there's a class action lawsuit in Canada or something going on against Polaris/Victory because of lack of support and parts. It's not like it's an old motorcycle, it's less than 4 years old, and still being sold. Why is it so hard to get parts?

siai47

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2017, 09:22:39 PM »
I would figure with Brammo being a small, undercapitalized, company there would not be many warehoused parts for anything but production.  A look at the Zero forum shows a similar parts problem where most parts are used for new vehicle production and service parts support is lacking, taking a back seat to production needs.  I doubt Polaris received many parts when they bought Brammo and most likely secured parts needed for production and not much else.  Any Brammo inventory would have been used to build the few motorcycles Polaris built.

Now they need to make a decision about how to go forward.  If they are going to support the Victory built Empulse they need to get suppliers to manufacture the pieces to build up their spare parts inventory.  They already have a distribution system in place, however it is for a non-existent dealer network.  So the system needs to be set up to deal with the 10's of thousands of IC motorcycles that Victory made which is a whole can of worms compared to dealing with the few Empulse motorcycles that were built.  Except for lawsuits and PR nightmares, Polaris' most cost effective solution is to do nothing and see what kind of push back they get from those of us that bought these machines.  Every Polaris built Empulse should still be on the factory warranty so this is a major problem.

I've talked about this before and lost everything on my Vectrix.  But this is different---Vectrix completely failed and the workers and stockholders lost everything along with the customers and dealers.  Polaris, on the other hand, is a large, profitable, intact company who is creating a huge PR problem that needs to be rectified.  I have been in two other situations where a product had major problems and the parent companies resolved them to my satisfaction.  Polaris needs to look at these kind of solutions to avoid legal trouble in the future. 

My two issues were a 2015 VW Jetta TDI and a Samsung washing machine.  First the Jetta.  VW had an idea for several years they were in trouble but didn't prepare for the huge settlement they ended up with for cheating on the emissions of the TDI diesel.  In the end they satisfied most of the customers by offering a repair of the vehicle to bring it into compliance with the emission standards or a buyback at pre "dieselgate" prices plus a substantial payment for the inconvenience of having to go through the process.  Customers were given the option of what VW would do and how much payment they would receive along with a couple of years to continue to use the vehicle before you had to select which way you would go.

In the Samsung situation, I had just purchased a new washer that was found to be defective.  About 2.5 million were involved.  By the time of the recall, Samsung had already set up a plan to address the problem.  In my case I was offered money (more than I had paid for the machine) to either buy another Samsung washer or slightly less to buy a different manufactures machine.  In order to receive the settlement I had to provide a receipt for a new machine and remove the serial numbers from the Samsung and sign a paper saying that I would never use the machine in commercial operation or sell it and when I was to get rid of it, I must destroy it.  Samsung would not provide parts or service but the machine remains in my garage as a backup.

So what should Polaris do?  For the few machines out there, I think they need to take the Samsung approach.  Buying all back would be less costly to Polaris than setting up a parts and service operation during the warranty period and extending the "five years service and ten years parts for Victory motorcycles" that was to be found in various press releases when Victory went under.  And remember we have an additional battery warranty that goes ten years.  No way of getting around that.  I don't think Polaris management was thinking about the low volume Empulse when they made these claims as they had thousands of IC Victory's to dump on the market.  Smart money would be to offer a settlement to all owners to cover all of their documented expenses related to the purchase of a 2016 Victory Empulse.  And, like the washing machine, let the owner keep the bike but offer no support or warranty whatsoever--when it breaks or wrecks it's done.  There will be a class action lawsuit about this if Polaris buries their head in the sand and hopes the problem goes away.  It would only cost Polaris a few million dollars to pay off all the owners.  A good class action law firm will suck that kind of money out of them in a matter of months and leave Polaris with a PR nightmare.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 01:03:35 AM by siai47 »

Ultratoad

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2017, 09:29:36 AM »
Well done....

jazz999

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2017, 12:43:55 AM »
Unfortunately, if it does come down to a class action lawsuit, that could drag on for years and years.  Polaris has deep pockets.  PR nightmare yes and hopes that Polaris will do the right thing though the track record so far has been pretty spotty at best

Richard230

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2017, 08:24:03 AM »
Unfortunately, if it does come down to a class action lawsuit, that could drag on for years and years.  Polaris has deep pockets.  PR nightmare yes and hopes that Polaris will do the right thing though the track record so far has been pretty spotty at best

Plus, do you think that Polaris customers who are interested in Indians and other Polaris products care much about what happens to a few customers who bought their electric motorcycles over a one-year period?  I really doubt any PR nightmare in the courts would be noticed by their typical customer and would generate more than a one-day comment in the local news or a random mention in motorcycle enthusiast magazines.
current bikes: 2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

siai47

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2017, 04:24:05 PM »
Yes, I do think others will care.  Like it or not, social media, forums like this one and the internet in general spreads information to just about anyone.  If a corporation has a management structure that would allow this to happen to any segment of their customer base than the entire base will take notice.  Maybe not in any sort of direct action but the question of if "they're next" is always in the back of their minds.  How would they like it if the Polaris product they bought just dropped to about zero value?  You think you could sell your used Empusle for much more then scrap value today?  I may be wrong but after talking to people who have other Polaris products and to dealers a common thread about the actual or perceived corporate culture seems to be emerging.  And that is they really don't care too much about their dealers or customers when it comes to anything that happens after you put down your cash.  I was actually amazed to listen to the communication problems my dealer had when trying (unsuccessfully) to get parts for my Empulse.  It was like listening to someone talking about a used car dealer in the '50's.  Not a straight answer in the house.  I am not the biggest purchaser of Polaris things but over the years I have bought quite a few---never a motorcycle but quads and snowmobiles.  Now when I talk about the Empulse debacle, my other friends who have a choice in products to buy are looking at alternatives to Polaris products.  There is much competition out there in the sport vehicle business.  So friends tell friends, social media kicks in and that's a PR nightmare started by something simple.  And lets not forget, the owners of the IC Victory products might be feeling the same hurt to some degree that we are.

Don't get me wrong, I may be way off base here and may be asking too much from Polaris when I want to pay them real money to buy a part on a machine they manufactured less than two years ago---and they can't be bothered to provide one.  However, it sure doesn't seem like the way a top tier company would react.  I just have a bad feeling about the final outcome   

frodus

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2017, 10:57:55 AM »
I'm concerned that when I need something like a component inside a gearbox, or something specific to the drive-train, or a VCU or BMS module or even a battery, that I'm going to be SOL.

Getting parts is sounding like a nightmare. What recourse do we have?

I'd read very carefully your warranty, it's 2 years for the bike, and 5 years for batteries. If you're not getting help, or parts, or the vehicle has been in the shop for a long enough time, you may be able to claim lemon law, and they're required to replace or buy the vehicle back.



PaulHMartinez

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2017, 07:35:53 AM »
Today marks 6 weeks. No replacement bike as yet.
Victory cust serv rep Brian not taking my calls and now using
Email.  Dealer has added little to the process from what I can tell.
  I think what's being missed here is the lasting impact this has on a buyer.
I've owned 30+ bikes over my 52+ years but this is my first experience with a Polaris
Product.  As of now it's likely to be the last, but there's more...  I also know many other
Riders and potential riders that sometimes like to ask more experienced riders and consumers about bikes. 
I've recommended many bikes, parts, lessons, accessories, books etc. I'm not sure I'd be very positive about Victory/Polaris currently and this can ripple. 

siai47

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2017, 08:35:56 AM »
I read the warranty carefully and it's a pretty lame warranty.  First it's a limited warranty and excludes most of the motorcycle outright.  When you exclude things like design faults and electronic components on an electric motorcycle and make everything else a "wear item" you don't have much.  In addition limited and express warranties are handled differently than full warranties and might be handled on a state level, not a Federal level.  That still doesn't give Polaris the right not to provide any parts or service after the sale.  Without access to parts and service you basically have reduced the value of your purchase to zero because of Polaris' actions.  I think any judge reviewing this would rule against Polaris and in favor of the purchaser.  Courts are being less tolerant about shoddy business practices. 

BTW--I miss read the battery warranty which is 5 years/100K miles not 10.  But if the bike won't run than you can't prove any claim for the battery.  Also, make sure your dealer sent in the warranty registration to Polaris and you have a copy of it.  This might be another out at state level but not at the Federal level.

I hope my Empulse continues to run and I don't crash it or drop it until some class action attorney figures this out for all of us.

PaulHMartinez

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2017, 05:24:18 AM »
Latest
A replacement Empulse has been found and is being shipped from St Louis today to the dealer. Or so I'm told.
To arrive there in 2-3 days getting us to next Tuesday which would be 7 weeks exactly or close to half the riding season around here.  Now, I'm not entirely sure that I even want a new one for fear there be another issue.  I did certainly enjoy it the 6 weeks I did get to ride it and had wanted an electric for a good long time.
Hope to have the entire situation resolve by the end of next week. We'll see. 
  On a positive note, the only bike available as a replacement bike comes with the high end fork, frame sliders and the small optional wind screen.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 06:44:57 AM by PaulHMartinez »

Ultratoad

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2017, 10:07:45 AM »
If you are receiving a new Empulse TT with those upgrades ($$$$) in trade to settle a warranty claim, you certainly hit the Mother Load !!!!  I am still having a blast on my Empulse as well and would jump on the same trade in your boat.  Rode mine out in the twisties just the other day, it still puts a big smile on my face.  Sure hope this works out for you....  Oh, and that little wind screen is awesome, takes a lot of wind pressure off of your chest at speed....

HadesOmega

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2017, 07:38:14 AM »
I didn't like the small windscreen it kinda felt like it did nothing unless you were full tuck.  I ordered a MRA X-Screen I might try that with the small windscreen and if I don't like it I'll sell it.  The brackets are nice though.
2016 Victory Empulse TT - #139

shayan

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2017, 06:21:24 PM »
I didn't like the small windscreen it kinda felt like it did nothing unless you were full tuck.  I ordered a MRA X-Screen I might try that with the small windscreen and if I don't like it I'll sell it.  The brackets are nice though.

Do u know if those brackets fit other screens? I have the MRA RNB and I don't think it'll for that.

00049 (AKA SopFu)

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2017, 11:20:35 AM »
Paul - sorry for your luck. You're in Chicagoland, correct? Which dealer did you go to? Mine sat at a dealer that has since closed for four months last year, and the problem was never resolved. My battery warranty is up in Feb, and I'm going to bring it someplace this fall to get it finally sorted out, once the weather turns cold.

It sounds like you got great service from the dealer, at least relative to what I got from the other. Did you go to Gina's or Randy's? I tried going through Gina's for sprockets, but they never returned my calls, and when I called the back they told me that they were essentially not interested in the business because it was too hard. I'm leaning towards Randy's in Marengo now. But if Gina's has already been through the ringer with Polaris with your bike, I may go there instead.
'03 SV650
'13 Empulse #49
Wheaton, IL

PaulHMartinez

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Re: Mine is Dead now too
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2017, 07:51:15 AM »
Never heard of Gina's. It was the other one that I'm now convinced either never got any "training" to be able to service them or simply didn't know what to do. I'll put it that way.
I'm assuming you're referring to a Brammo Empulse, correct?
You may be best by calling directly to Victory customer service if you still have a warranty that they're obligated to fulfill.  See if they have a recommendation for an authorized Sevice center and if they do you may want to contact them to be sure they have someone competent and confident enough for a repair.  Until they're involved I wouldn't have much expectation of getting anything fixed. 
 I'm hoping to take delivery of the new replacement bike this week.
Again until I'm on it or its in my garage the situation is not resolved.
Tomorrow, August 1 is the 2 month mark. I'm disappointed all around.
I did ask what becomes of the old bike. The service manager says its sent back to victory and that's all he knew.