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Happy New Year
Richard230:
--- Quote from: Shinysideup on January 01, 2018, 09:07:28 PM ---
--- Quote from: MichaelJ on January 01, 2018, 06:57:09 PM ---Happy New Year, all, and keep riding!
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Happy 2018 to all.
Michael - I noticed in your signature that your wife has a 2017 Zero S. It may be interesting for us to hear about your impressions of it compared to your experience of riding the Empulse...
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As an owner of a 2018 S, a comparison like that would certainly be interesting to me. :)
I gave my 2014 Zero S to my daughter, who now has both my old 2012 S and the 2014. She rides around Marin County and along the coast and enjoys both. I might add that the EIC (I believe they are) batteries in the 2012 Zero seem to be holding up better than the Farasis batteries in the 2014 Zero, which are no longer capable of being charged to 100%. (They currently stop charging at 92%, but can be forced to charge to 98% if you leave the charger connected for 5 more days. ??? ). The 2012 Zero doesn't seem to have suffered any obvious battery degradation so far.
While the 2014 Zero vastly outperforms the 2012 model, I am seeing almost no difference in motor performance and range of my 2018 S, compared with the 2014. However, the big difference is the Showa suspension on the new bike, compared with the Fast Ace suspension on the 2014 and 2012 models (the Fast Ace suspension installed on the 2012 is really crappy). It is a huge upgrade. :) Also, the braking has been improved on the 2018 bike, with about 50% more bite (and more noise when coming to a stop) from the front brake. It also has ABS, but that has never been activated so far, so I don't know how well that works.
Personally, I can't really see any difference between the 2017 Zeros and the 2018 models. Most of the advances appear to be the result of marketing spin, not anything that the owner will notice. One bit of spin on Zero's website is that they claim that the 2017-2018 bikes' firmware can be updated via Zero smart phone app. As near as I can tell, this is either a lie, a figment of someone's imagination that was never corrected on their website's product feature section, or something that was planned and never worked out in practice. :(
I'll add one more comment: My 2014 Zero was rated at 14.2 kWh, but actually showed 13.38 kWh on the Zero app when it was new. The 2018 bike is claimed to have a battery capacity of 16.6 kWh (nominal) and shows 15.18 kWh on the app when fully charged. However, range appears to be about the same with both bikes, as the 2014 model would charge to a maximum of 117 volts, while the 2018 bike stops charging at 115 volts. Also, the old bike would die when the display read exactly 0%, while the new Zero apparently will continue to run for 10 or 20 miles after the pack reaches 0%. Since we all have range anxiety, that in practice, does nothing to make use of the extra 2 kWh in the 2018 bike. :( It would appear that Zero is doing their best to be sure that their batteries will last for the duration of their 5 year warranty. ::)
lamber:
Happy New Year! I am hoping to contribute a lot more this year as I am fairly new to this forum.
Interesting to hear the anecdote about the Farasis cells, I wonder if it is a cell issue or a software issue. Farasis makes pretty impressive claims about their cell capabilities.
Richard230:
--- Quote from: lamber on January 02, 2018, 03:49:53 PM ---Happy New Year! I am hoping to contribute a lot more this year as I am fairly new to this forum.
Interesting to hear the anecdote about the Farasis cells, I wonder if it is a cell issue or a software issue. Farasis makes pretty impressive claims about their cell capabilities.
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It is possible that I have a couple of bad cells that are charging faster than the rest.
It is perhaps more likely that keeping the charger connected to power 24/7 for 3.5 years and the pack charged to 100% as originally recommended by Zero, damaged the cells somewhat. About 6 months ago, Zero released an update saying that should no longer be done and that the charger should be disconnected once the pack is fully charged in order to extend the life of their battery packs.
lamber:
That's odd that leaving the charger connected would cause a problem, unless they weren't detecting 100% SOC in the software and turning off the charger.
What is true is that keeping cells at 100% SOC has a significant negative effect on their cycle life, although "100%" is a subjective SOC number created by Zero, you would have to compare the open circuit voltage of the cell to Farasis specs to see what it actually corresponds to.
Richard230:
--- Quote from: lamber on January 02, 2018, 06:49:49 PM ---That's odd that leaving the charger connected would cause a problem, unless they weren't detecting 100% SOC in the software and turning off the charger.
What is true is that keeping cells at 100% SOC has a significant negative effect on their cycle life, although "100%" is a subjective SOC number created by Zero, you would have to compare the open circuit voltage of the cell to Farasis specs to see what it actually corresponds to.
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When the 2014 bike was new it would charge to 117 volts. In its latest condition it cuts off charging at 113 volts, although if you continue to leave the charger connected, it will eventually reach 115 volts and charge of 98% on both the display and the Zero app. My 2018 S shows 115 volts when the charger cuts off and the display shows 100%. All Zero said about leaving the charger plugged in all of the time as they originally recommended, is that doing so will affect the "long term health of the batteries" and they currently recommend pulling the plug once the display shows 100%.
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