Author Topic: 2020 Zero SR/F review  (Read 1520 times)

Richard230

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2020 Zero SR/F review
« on: February 25, 2019, 12:35:12 PM »
Here is the latest and greatest (and most expensive) model from Zero.  I see a little bit of Empulse styling in it:   ;) 
https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/zero/exclusive-2019-zero-sr-f-review-first-ride.html
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Brammofan

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 01:23:17 PM »
I wish I knew how much of the design of this bike could be attributed to Brian Wismann, formerly of Brammo. I agree that there are some similarities with the Empulse.
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Richard230

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 02:49:20 PM »
I wish I knew how much of the design of this bike could be attributed to Brian Wismann, formerly of Brammo. I agree that there are some similarities with the Empulse.

I bet he put in more than his two cents into the design.  ;)
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Ultratoad

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2019, 09:04:56 PM »
I hope that Zero and Harley (not so much) have enough success with their EV's to awaken  Polaris....  It would be awesome to have an updated Empulse enter from the shadows....  Absent that, I'm pulling for Zero....  They have earned it....

Richard230

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2019, 10:03:58 AM »
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

jazz999

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2019, 07:23:24 PM »
2019 is shaping up to be interesting for electric motorcycles:
  • Lightning Strike for $13K
  • Zero SR/F for $20K
  • Harley Livewire $30K

If Lightning can pull off what they are promising for $13K that would be impressive.  The Zero design is much improved thanks to Brian Wisman and has some awesome hi-tech display and features which I think will sell well.  The Harley will be a failure mostly because of the price and because it isn't any better than a 6 year old Empulse.

Shinysideup

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2019, 09:28:15 PM »
I found this in the comments section and judged it worth sharing:

"This is the first electric bike to feature traction control -- in this case full boat Bosch MSC. Previous versions of the Zero -- and all other e-bikes, aktually -- used passive torque maps to limit engine output to what had been observed in testing to allow the tire to stay hooked up say 98% of the time. So that old saw about 100% of the torque right off idle was 99% bulldinky -- had one let rip with 100% of the torque right off idle, you'd be doing burnouts and flipping -- 100% of the torque was only available at 40 mph and up.

With Active Motorcycle Stability Control, though, one CAN let rip right up to the point where sensors detect either excessive wheelspin or 'adverse vehicle physics effects' . The net effect is that these controls allow use of more of the power sooner -- it should be a real game changer. These bikes were quick before using the passive maps -- they should be waaay quicker now."

This means I'll probably have to test ride one of these puppies.  ::)


Richard230

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2019, 09:43:53 AM »
I found this in the comments section and judged it worth sharing:

"This is the first electric bike to feature traction control -- in this case full boat Bosch MSC. Previous versions of the Zero -- and all other e-bikes, aktually -- used passive torque maps to limit engine output to what had been observed in testing to allow the tire to stay hooked up say 98% of the time. So that old saw about 100% of the torque right off idle was 99% bulldinky -- had one let rip with 100% of the torque right off idle, you'd be doing burnouts and flipping -- 100% of the torque was only available at 40 mph and up.

With Active Motorcycle Stability Control, though, one CAN let rip right up to the point where sensors detect either excessive wheelspin or 'adverse vehicle physics effects' . The net effect is that these controls allow use of more of the power sooner -- it should be a real game changer. These bikes were quick before using the passive maps -- they should be waaay quicker now."

This means I'll probably have to test ride one of these puppies.  ::)

My recollection is that both Energica and the BMW C-Evolution scooter claim to have a traction control system, along with the usual ABS. So I think that statement might only be correct when talking about the new Bosch AMSC system (which includes "cornering ABS"), which is also being introduced on some ICE motorcycle models this year. 

Still, a very useful thing to have with an electric motor that can spin up very quickly if the rear wheel looses traction, due to its high torque and lack of any flywheel effect to slow down the rapid and unexpected spin.

That happened to me once when my Zero hit a patch of oil pavement as I was accelerating up a freeway on-ramp.  The rear wheel suddenly spun up very quickly and the entire bike shuttered violently, which really got my attention. Fortunately, I was able to quickly dial down the power and brought things under control.  So I can see the advantage of the new Bosch system as being a valuable addition to the SR/F, especially with the new motor's high torque specification.
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

HadesOmega

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2019, 06:03:17 PM »














The J1772 connector was pretty cool.  There is a magnet that holds the cover down. 





I just rode the SR/F man it's nice!  I really like it.  I was a little worried about the size of the bike like it was really big but it turns out it fits me just right.  It has a very good turning circle too I could pretty easily do tight circles and figure 8's with it.  Very smooth throttle that you would come to expect from Zeroes' motorcycles.  That being said it's very much like their other motorcycles.  It has regen similar to that of a Toyota Prius where it will coast and regen off throttle and you give it a little bit of brake to get more regen.  I honestly don't like that I've gotten so use to the Empulse regen that is just throttle dependent.  I would like more regen but you can supposedly tune it on the app.

The operating system is ok.  It's nice to look at a little finicky to navigate.  Its not too hard once you get used to it though.  It's a little laggy also.  I have to say I still prefer the Energica one, it was quick and easy to use and you can control power and regen on the fly.  Changing modes is similar to say like a Triumph.  You hold the mode button down till mode blinks then flick it left or right.  Choose the mode you want then roll off the throttle.  In my opinion too many steps.  I know its for safety but I don't like it.  The Energica you just select it and it changes on the fly. 

It has boat loads of power.  I would say similar to the SR and probably more.  Probably enough to keep up with an Energica.  Will be interesting to see how it does during Refuel TT.  It will get up to speed with a quick flick of the throttle.  The throttle is SOOO smooth also no herky jerky like the Empulse off throttle.  I'd say its about as fast as the Energica Eva. 

Cornering with it felt nice.  It's the right size for my person unlike my Empulse which is too small.  It felt confident leaning it into the corners.  Also it has traction control and ABS to add to the confidence thing.  You can set the level of traction control also. 

Also ergonomics was similar to a GSX-S-1000F, it felt very similar and that's a good thing.  It doesn't have that snatchy throttle of the GSXS thankfully.  Seat was also very comfortable didn't ride it too long though.  It's got a nice storage compartment.  Not big enough to put a helmet but you can put your EVSE in it I like that.  That was my complaint about the Empulse you couldn't carry anything on it.  It looks like it comes with a turbocord EVSE also that's a very good compact EVSE. 

The model I rode was the Premium model with the heated grips and cruise control.  Those functions were sort of easy to operate.  Heated grips hold the mode button to the left and it goes to a heated grip menu then select what heat setting you want.  Cruise control is operated using the start button.  Use to set speed and enable.  My only complaint about that is the start button is so far away from the twist throttle it hard to move your thumb there.  I have small thumbs I guess.

Sound well, it doesn't really make any sound haha.  Like the other Zero bikes it's almost silent.  You hear a faint whirring sound on acceleration that's it.  I'd say it was so quiet you could even hear the tires rolling.  You can hear it regen a little and it becomes louder if you give it a little brake.  Very silent experience and also the aerodynamics was very good.  When I had it on the freeway it was pretty quiet.  Once of the complaints I have of the Empulse is the aerodynamics sucks even with a windscreen the ride is very noisey, it just the way the bike goes through the air.  The SRF was great, no too much sound and buffeting probably because you have a big meaty bike underneath you.  It didn't even have a windscreen it had a tiny little plastic fly screen I guess.  Tucking was comfortable for me also.  The "gastank" was pretty big and  not too far from my chest. 

So one thing I was thinking is Zero has pretty much just killed their SR bike.  The SR starts at $16,500.  The SR/F starts at about $19,000.  With an accessory like say the charge tank (that's the one I'd get) it's +$2,295.  So do the match your at $18,795!  That's right there with the standard SR/F.  Plus you kind of have the charge tank already, it has a 3kw onboard charger.  You can upgrade it to 6kw or just get the Premium edition (+$2000) if you want the full 6kwh charging.  So remember the SR doesn't have level 2 charging it's a option.  Supposedly in fall 2019 there will be a power tank available for the SR/F increasing the range.  So this bike has the ability to be charged at charging stations and have the power tank.  So it can do more than the SR.  But yeah all those options costs more $$$$.

Also on the website there are like 3 charging options for this bike!  The Standard has 3KW charger, then the premium has a 6kw, then you can further upgrade that with some kinda rapid charger.  I'm curious how all this works because Level 2 charging's max output is about 6kw.  I don't see how you can get more unless you plugs into two charge stations which is how the Supercharger guys are doing it.

Also about range... I rode it down to about 54% SOC so and it was saying it still had about 45 miles range left.  So that leads me to believe this bike will do about 90-100 miles of MIXED riding.  I can't say for sure because I don't have enough seat time with it.  But on my Empulse it has a 10.5KWH battery pack and I can do 60 miles mixed (normal riding).  You figure the Zero has a 14.4KWH pack so it's about 3KWH more juice.  So that's how I came at that estimate.  The empulse does have a 6 speed transmission though so it's probably more efficient. 

Exciting times for electric motorcycles.  This year you have many flavors to choose from.  sport bike (Lightning Strike), supernaked (SR/F + Eva SS), and Cruiser (Livewire).  I very much like supernakeds also.  Would I  buy/own one?  Yes, yes I would but that's what I would say about the SR also but like I mentioned the SR/F just killed the SR.

Another question I asked myself on the way home was could you do sport touring with this bike?  Yes I think you could... IF you buy all the bells and whistles.  That being the powertank thats not available now and the premium edition with the cruise control, heated grips, and 6kw charging.  It has some onboard storage in the "gastank".  They may have a rear rack/trunk for it in the future.  You could pretty easily throw a giant loop on it.  Then get a windscreen for more wind protection.  You can probably do maybe like 120 miles before needing a charge.  It's possible on the Energica bikes because they have Level 3 charging.  That's where the SR/F falls short is it's lack of Level 3 charging.  I don't see why all manufacturers don't use level 3 charging I don't think it adds weight to the bike because the charging is not onboard.  Maybe they're afraid it will nuke their battery?  Anyway you get around 1.5hours for a full charge about 95% with a fully equipped SR/F.  On the Energica with Level 3 DC Fast charging it takes 20 minutes to get from 0% to 85%.  Probably 30 mins to 90%ish.  That's still really good compared to the Zero.  So I think the Energica still makes the better sport tourer and they've proven then can.  I think a 20-30 minute stretch and coffee break I could live with on a long ride.  If I have to wait for like say my Empulse to charge it's painfully slow.  That being said Level 2 chargers are more plentiful and cheaper than Level 3 chargers.

From Zeroes' Website
Quote
RAPID CHARGE SYSTEM
Our all-new scalable Rapid Charge System allows the bike to be configured for 3 kW, 6 kW, 9 kW or 12 kW of charging at any standard Level 2 charge station.* The SR/F Rapid Charge System will be able to charge at 38 miles of range per hour of charging (mphc) on 3 kW, 76 mphc on 6 kw, and 153 mphc on 12 kW which can recharge the battery pack to 95% capacity in 1 hour of charging.

* Note: SR/F requires use of included EVSE cord in order to charge on a standard 110 V wall outlet.

Haha sorry I really geek out on this stuff.  Just looking for my next potential electric motorcycle.  Will have to try out the other competitors in the future but the SR/F really impressed me :)

Oh yeah another thing to think about is this bike has a comm system very similar to the Tesla cars.  They can update the bike like the Tesla cars.  So there is room for growth is what I would like to say.  Cause you keep hearing stuff about Tesla pushing these updates and the cars have more power and more features. 

From Zeros' website
Quote
THE CONNECTED BIKE
The SR/F is connected through cellular networks, transmitting info to the app at all times. Ride information, current bike status and location are always available. This connectivity gives the rider the ability to monitor the bike in four (4) main areas: Bike Status & Alerts, Charging, Ride Data Sharing, System Upgrades and Updates.
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Brammofan

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2019, 06:07:34 PM »
 What an excellent write-up! Thanks for this.
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Richard230

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 08:54:19 AM »
My understanding is that the reason Zero doesn't have Level 3 charging is that they are still using a 116 volt system which will not accommodate 480 volts of DC charging.

Zero's current issue is that they are apparently still struggling to produce enough SR/F demonstrator bikes for each of their dealers and are not yet manufacturing the bikes that customers ordered and put down $1000 deposits on when the bike was first announced a couple of months ago.

There are also internet reports that the 2019 models have been sold out and are no longer being produced due to the demands on the factory that is trying to produce enough SR/F bikes to satisfy customer orders. 

It would appear that the demand for the SR/F model has far exceeded Zero's projections and has caught them unaware and not ready to fill the demand.  Or it could be that they rushed the SR/F to the market before they were really ready to produce them when H-D announced the LiveWire and Lightning introduced their Strike model, in order to undercut those potential sales.  ???
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

cybergodzilla

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2019, 03:35:59 PM »
Anyone read the Owner's Manual? Many requirements to follow and stipulations that void your warranty...

2020-Zero-Owners-Manual-SRF.pdf

CyberG from SoCal
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Richard230

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2019, 04:17:54 PM »
Anyone read the Owner's Manual? Many requirements to follow and stipulations that void your warranty...

2020-Zero-Owners-Manual-SRF.pdf

CyberG from SoCal
Proud Brammo Empulse 2014 Owner, When it Works =/

No doubt written by Zero's product liability lawyers and helped along by their insurance company.  ::)
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

siai47

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2019, 07:07:49 AM »
Yesterday, I took a demo ride on the Zero SR/F.  It was a supervised ride with a salesman following me on another Zero.  I thought it might be a boring demo but that wasn't the case.  The ride lasted about a half hour and we ran at all kinds of speeds on various roads from narrow two lanes to the freeway.  I must say I was impressed by the bike.  I would agree with pretty much everything in HadesOmega's review about the bike.  I found the handling of the bike to be superb and felt very comfortable diving into corners.  You really couldn't feel the bikes nearly 500 pound weight and it didn't have any top heavy feeling to it.  Power is way more than I expected and the sport mode is a blast.  The bike is extremely quiet with no noise coming from the chain, transmission gears, or reduction gears (as it doesn't have any of that stuff).  There is a slight noise from the belt but it is negligible.  There is actually a reasonable amount of storage space in the "tank" unlike the Empulse which requires a backpack for anything bigger then you registration and insurance card. 

That being said, there were a couple of things I didn't like but nothing that would stop me from purchasing it.  First, from a cosmetic standpoint the storage compartment cover in the tank really has a poor fit.  It is off by nearly a half inch at the front hinge location.  This must be a design/part flaw that I hope they get straightened out in production.  Its unacceptable on a bike at this price point.  Second, I feel that the seat is extremely hard.  I don't know if it would be uncomfortable for a longer ride or not.  I know this is "sport" oriented but a little padding would help.  Finally, and my biggest gripe is the rear brake.  It requires a lot of pressure on the pedal to get it to do much.  The pedal is not easy to find (it's tucked in) in a hurry.  Also, the pivot point of the pedal is forward of the the part you push on unlike almost every other motorcycle on the planet.  It just seems awkward for something you really need to get to quickly in and emergency situation.   I am about to get flamed here, but as there is no lever on the left side of the handlebar (no clutch) I would prefer to see the rear brake located there instead of nothing.  This is common scooter and bicycle practice and would seem out of place on a motorcycle because they almost always have a hand clutch and a foot shifter.  On the SR/F, there is no reason to move your foot off the left peg to shift and with a hand operated brake, no reason to take your right foot of the peg either.  Just saying----

I looked at this bike for one reason and one reason only.  I am happy with my current bike (Victory Empulse TT) but know that the first hiccup that occurs that requires maintenance is going to turn my motorcycle from something I can drive into wall art.  Just planning for the future.  I would suggest that any Empulse owners that are looking for a path for another electric motorcycle should demo the Zero SR/F.       

Richard230

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Re: 2020 Zero SR/F review
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2019, 09:22:12 AM »
Really hard seats are a Zero tradition, dating from at least my first 2012 Zero S and nothing has changed with my current 2018 S.  So I always ride with an Air Hawk slightly-inflatable seat pad. It is the only way I can sit on that bike long enough to run the battery pack down.  ;)
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.