System Fault B40 Error Bike Does not Run

[KaFr]

I'm very sorry that disconnecting the battery, BMC, and VCU connectors didn't help resolve the B40 error. Still, thank you very much for your new videos. The most instructive was the procedure for disconnecting and reconnecting the VCU connector, which is located below the charging port. The BMC connector, on the other hand, is very well accessible. It is interesting how much the location and shape of some of these control modules changed compared to the first production version of Brammo Empulse.

I am sure that the fault is only in the upper battery module (the indicator light does not flash). On the contrary, the lower module is completely OK (LED flashes green). It is the same as the Valence battery modules inside the Brammo Enertia Basic. A flashing green LED indicates a fully functional state, a red solid LED indicates a very low voltage, and if nothing is lit, it means that the module is in sleep mode or is dead.

[HadesOmega]

Ah ic yeah I knew the Brammo Empulse and Enertia had something like that I just didn't know what they mean.  I thought it was some kind of site glass like to check for refrigerant haha.  Anybody with a working bike can confirm that the battery lights blink green when they are in normal operation?

It is strange that I can't read the temp for the lower pack though.  I'd imagine if the temp sensor malfunctioned it would think the battery is too hot or too cold and stop working.  It looks like the B9 fault is tied to this problem.

[KaFr]

I looked at the Clawson Motorsports website and they also offer UTV Polaris Ranger EV. In the years 2016-2018, a version with Brammo Power lithium battery modules was also produced, which are very similar to the modules in the Victory Empulse TT.

https://www.atv.com/blog/2015/08/2016-polaris-ranger-ev-li-ion-polaris-pursuit-camo-preview.html

https://www.polarispartshouse.com/oemparts/a/pol/5a39e2e487a8660eb45db1f4/electrical-battery

If they can diagnose and repair these modules in the Polaris Ranger EV, they should be able to do the same with the Victory Empulse TT. 

[EV promise]

I believe the high and low temps are cell temps. The highest will be in the working pack, as they can be read and the lowest is just unknown,  as there is no communication with the failed pack..  B9 fault shows as moisture ( from Brammo wiki page) so could be related to failure.
Dealership sounds promising from KaFr's info on the place. Must have had so issue over time with the Ranger EV's.
 PS. I've not looked but does the usb stick have charging logs on it in addition to riding logs? What program would have been used to read them?

[HadesOmega]

Hmm I have always thought BTH and BTL is the temps of each battery pack since there are two banks the upper and lower.  I remember one of them is always lower than the other also the lower one because it gets more airflow.  I actually just looked in the manual and it makes NO MENTION at all about BTH and BTL it totally skips around it.  Air Temp, Motor Temp, Range, Power is all it mentions. 

Does anyone that have a Brammo have BTH or BTL?

Yes I've done research on the B9 fault and like the B40 no one knows what it is either.

I believe there is charging logs also but I don't have a program that can read the logs.  The Victory software didn't want to work on 2 of my computers

Also yep I remember when looking for Empulse parts I noticed there were Polaris side by sides that had brammo parts in it.  In that parts diagram it doesn't look like those parts are compatible with the Empulse they looks different dimensions but crikeys $4000 and and $7000 for the packs!  Would be a waste not to be able to fix the one currently on the bike.  If the bike wasn't underwarranty I wouldn't pay for a new pack that's for sure.  It would turn into a parts bike =/  I'd might as well just look for another bike.  Heh I'll see if I can find a Ranger EV when I go there.

Hmm looks like they don't have the Brammo batteries anymore the 2020 Model uses lead acid batteries
https://ranger.polaris.com/en-us/ranger-ev-avalanche-gray/specs/

[KaFr]

I think BTH means the highest battery temperature and BTL is the lowest battery temperature. The temperature is measured in each of the battery modules by several temperature sensors. So the maximum and minimum can be in any module. The same applies to the actual cell voltage during charging. The minimum and maximum cell voltages are displayed regardless of the module in which it is located. I have same experience with Brammo Enertia Plus, where there are also two battery modules.

If the BTL value is not displayed, no information about this temperature is sent to the VCU. In my opinion, the BMS of the upper module does not send information to the VCU because it is disconnected from the operation (error B40).

If it helps, Michalel published a converter of log files to ecxel spreadsheet on his website today (Empulse_Log_File_Converter.zip):

http://www.environ-systems.com/brammo-empulse-r.html

Polaris used Brammo Power batteries for the Ranger EV only in 2016-2018. They had lead-acid batteries before, and then he returned to them. Either because of the high price, or he had a bad experience with them.
They were batteries of a similar type to the Victory Empulse, but had different dimensions and capacity.

Every Polaris dealer can download diagnostic software for Victory Empulse TT. Maybe for interest, I will try to ask the nearest dealer Polaris in Prague (Czech Republic), if he could diagnose my Victory Empulse TT. I think it should be possible, even though this electric motorbike has never been officially imported into Europe.

[KaFr]

I would like to return to your Victory Empulse TT testing on the race track. You mentioned that it was relatively cold before the ride and after the ride the batteries were very hot. I read something about it and pouch cells are very prone to extreme temperature changes in a short time, because they change their volume a lot (compared to cylindrical cells with a solid shell). It is therefore possible that due to the rapid change in temperature and volume, the tightness of the packaging of one of the cells may have been broken. Which could explain error B9 (moisture caused by partial evaporation of the cell into the module space). But that's just my consideration, nothing more.

Here is an interesting article on the pros and cons of pouch cells:

https://medium.com/battery-lab/advantages-of-pouch-cell-battery-trend-and-opportunities-d08a5f0c6804

[HadesOmega]

Oh GOOD NEWS I found out what the problem with the bike is thanks to KaFr for posting the link to the log file translator I was able to translate the log file and find out the problem.  It turns out the temp sensor or a temp sensors in the battery pack failed when it fully charged.

Here is a VLOG explaining how I was able to translate it and how I was able to tell when it happened and find out the culprit.  The display on the Empulse is not good at display fault errors or multiple fault errors.  From the data in the log files I can tell the battery cells are still in a good state also.  But it is very disturbing that multiple sensors (temp sensors) have begun to fail on this bike.  Maybe I got a bad one.  The motor temp sensor failed in a similar way it reported too hot then it reported too cold.

[Brammofan]

Do you think you'll be able to get a replacement for the temp sensor?
(I've been following your exploits daily with this problem. So glad you tracked down the problem.)

[EV promise]

Great to hear the thoughts, I agree about the sensor. The bms thinks the battery is to cold and thus won't start to protect itself. I've not seen an image of the inside of a Victory Empulse battery but the Brammo ones look like a skilled technician could strip it and replace the faulty sensor. Hoping for you.
Empulse software I've tried needs to see an ixxat attached. No hope. The spreadsheet program looks good on YouTube.
Enertia software partly fails. You can load a log file .log and watch it charge or ride for ten mins. Not seen or tried an enertia plus file.

[KaFr]

I'm really glad that you finally managed to analyze the data from the flash drive. However, the biggest thanks go to Michael (MiBa) from Germany, the former owner of Brammo Empulse R, who made the LOG file converter available on his website.

Here is his profile on this forum: http://brammoforum.com/index.php?action=profile;u=10012

Your video is instructive for me too. I came up with the real cause of the B40 error after seeing it. I noticed that in addition to error B8, error B36 also appeared when the battery was almost fully charged. This is a non-standard condition and probably the real cause of the B40 error. I also have experience with my Brammo Enertia+ with error B36. After one long trip in the summer, the batteries overheated due to a combination of high ambient temperature and low SoC. When I charged the batteries, charging stopped at about 86% SoC, error B36 occurred, and battery charging stopped. In order to charge the batteries to a higher SoC, I had to cool the batteries to a lower temperature for a short drive and then it was only possible to charge the batteries to 100% SoC. I think it works similarly for the Victory Empulse TT.

In your case, due to a faulty temperature sensor (B8), overheating of the batteries (B36) at 100% SoC was reported and the system evaluated it as a danger of destroying the battery, so to be sure, it completely disconnected the BMS (B40).

Regarding error B9 shown on the display: in fact it is probably error B8, but the display shows the wrong number, in my opinion.

[KaFr]

In any case, it is very likely that in order to repair or replace a defective temperature sensor, it will be necessary to remove the battery module from the motorcycle and open its cover.

The question is whether the Clawson Motorsports technician is qualified and authorized to perform this repair, or whether he will at least be able to hand over the removed module to his manufacturer for repair. Did you ask them about it?

The only problem is that the battery modules for the Victory Empulse TT were manufactured by Brammo Power, but in 2017 Cummins took over the know-how and production. If Cummins has a commitment to deal with warranty repairs of Brammo modules, this should be easily repairable. Temperature sensors are replaceable, but their specifications are known only to the module manufacturer.

BTW: I found from the list of electrical components the type of temperature sensor that is used in the Victory Empulse TT engine. It is a product of U.S. Sensors, marked USP9540. This sensor should also be replaceable. But it can probably only be replaced by the manufacturer of the electric motor, ie the company Parker-Hannifin.
However, the electric motor of your Victory empulse TT is no longer under warranty, unlike the traction battery.

[HadesOmega]

Hmm interesting that probe looks like the same one as the one under the tank cover for the ambient temp.  I'm not too worried about the motor temp sensor, I just disconnect it.  Unfortunately that won't work for the battery because if the battery thinks it's too hot or cold it won't like it. 

I don't think the battery overheated, I was charging it like I normally do with the level 2 outlet.  I let the bike sit all day, then plugged it in at night while it was cool.  It could be a cell got overcharged and got hot, but I think that is even less likely to happen when the battery is at high state of charge because it lowers the charge current when topping off the battery and starts to top balance the pack.  The sensors look like the culprit.

[EV promise]

Hi, I've been reading through your log when the b40 error occurred and here's my thoughts. At 12:32am on 07/02/2021 the column that shows module 5 PCBa temp is -50 where the others are 20 to 21 deg. The B8 fault shows at the same time and is caused by the relative humidity being 87% in module 5, much less in the others eg 42%. The last error shown is number of rebuilds on module 5 bq116 suddenly, from 0 to 4451, others now showing approx 5. (no idea what this means). The bq116 monitors those cells and I would guess that moisture has damaged/compromised that chip on the PCB. It did try to restart.

[HadesOmega]

Ugh what a miserable long day of driving it was today but the bike is at Clawson Motorsports.  It was the same story as Spirit.  I go in and tell them I'm checking my bike in and I tell them it's an electric motorcycle and then I get this puzzled look on a persons face saying do we even work on those?  I also get a couple people asking me hey what's the electric bike like? as usual.  He had to go ask if they do work on it and I told him that that's what they told me on the phone that you will work on it.

So kinda bad news.  The guy that checked me in at the service counter said that they have had only one other Empulse here and that Polaris told them to NOT work on it.  He also mentions that even if they could get their computers to work on the bike they wouldn't really be able to do much.  Also the bill just to diagnose the bike is $390!  They also tell me the warranty is expired on the bike but I am prepared to play this game this time around.  I brought a print out of the warranty information that was in the owners manual and I brought the warranty paperwork that I had signed when I bought the bike. 

But the bike is there and they will take a look at it and we'll see in a day or two what is going to happen =/  It doesn't look good... 

Oh yeah I got an email from Zach at Victory again asking if I had dropped the bike off yet and I had replied that I was going tomorrow and asked about the motor thermistor problem and he said he would get to back to me on that if that is covered under the warranty.