Ability to change the programming to increase top speed?

[Brammofan]

Brammo folks have hinted on here that the top speed of the E+ might be more than 60+, and have mentioned that the 88.8V figure might be relevant to that.  And yes, they can set a top speed of 20mph if they want to (e.g. if they want to go out of business). 

I've always thought that the "customize your torque curve and top speed" ability would be cool.  I think that, as long as the program you used to do this would warn you about certain things (e.g. "your initial torque will shoot the bike out from beneath you" "your torque curve will reduce your range to 15 miles, but don't worry--at that top speed you'll be road kill within 10 miles" "your torque curve is too low -- are you some kind of wuss?" "if you wish to set your acceleration this gradual, please provide proof that you have covered all logos or other branding on the bike so that no one will associate Brammo with the putt-putt settings you have chosen") that would be cool.

And, as mentioned elsewhere, an iPhone/iTouch/Android app to do this would be awesome.

[HighlanderMWC]

From what I've read electric motors have an effective max rpm and as you approach that it takes more and more energy to accelerate. There's a good chance the Enertia's top speed is not limited by the battery pack (or controller) but by the motor rpm.

Of course, if you change the gearing so that max motor rpm means a higher road speed it would take a larger battery pack to support accelerations on par with the stock Enertia gearing, but the efficiency would be reduced meaning that the range wouldn't be increased as much.

[Kelly Olsen]

Many of the new plug in cars, like the Leaf, have two modes, "Economy" and "Sport." Just a push of the button and you get more "vroom" with a little less range. Would think this would be doable on an Enertia.

I'd probably stay in the economy mode most of the time, but it would be nice to have an option if you needed to be on the freeway for a short distance and wanted to stay safe by keeping up with the flow. Or when at an intersection (where it was safe) and there was another driver or rider looking at you with a mocking smirk while he was sitting in his Porsche or on his fancy bike and you wanted to give him an education.

[Brammofan]

Or when at an intersection (where it was safe) and there was another driver or rider looking at you with a mocking smirk while he was sitting in his Porsche or on his fancy bike and you wanted to give him an education.

I like the way you put that.  It's all in the name of "education."
 

[protomech]

Many of the new plug in cars, like the Leaf, have two modes, "Economy" and "Sport." Just a push of the button and you get more "vroom" with a little less range. Would think this would be doable on an Enertia.

I'd probably stay in the economy mode most of the time, but it would be nice to have an option if you needed to be on the freeway for a short distance and wanted to stay safe by keeping up with the flow. Or when at an intersection (where it was safe) and there was another driver or rider looking at you with a mocking smirk while he was sitting in his Porsche or on his fancy bike and you wanted to give him an education.

Leaf and most other EV / HEV are just switchable accelerator mappings, so that the engine/motor will ramp up torque output more or less quickly as you depress the accelerator farther in. Typically 100% accelerator input will give 100% torque output regardless of mode, so if you floor it you'll go as fast as the car will go, regardless of mode.

Brammo could certainly add multiple mappings to the Enertia Plus -- and likely to the Enertia 3.1 at the same time.

If a higher top speed in the Enertia Plus is important to you, let Brammo know! The squeaky wheel gets the grease, or possibly an even taller rear sprocket..

[webman]

I love the idea of different 'power maps'; power, economy, hillclimbing, etc.  I actually think they'd really only need two settings, though.

Regarding the speed, if the enertia plus could hit and maintain 75mph, that would be really fantastic.  Perhaps if the 'dual mode' mentioned was available, they could have the higher top speed available only in the 'power' mode.

Great discussion, everyone!

the webman
aka eric

[john]

UK Speed limit is 70mph and the government has been pledged to raise that to 80mph

60mph may not cut the mustard over here   

Empulse figures are fine ! ..... UK needs a Enertia++ though.

[Gavin]

I have faith that the Plus will have final numbers around 70 to 75 mph top speed.

The mileage will decrease quite a bit at that speed, but I really wouldn't mind having a bit more top end and a few less miles....

Mostly will be doing city riding at 40 mph, but would like to hit the highways for a few exits now and then.

No reason for the Plus not to go faster...so we will see if the programming limits it or not.

I will say I still hit the highways now and then on my Stella (top speed of 60 mph), so I guess 60 mph isn't a no go for me...but I would GREATLY appreciate having the more MPH to keep me safer.

Gavin


as for the Enertia + +....yep, I expect that in a few years ---likely similar to current bike but top speed of 80 MPH and 150 miles in range...that's the fun of "future" electrics...the batteries and motors should keep getting better and better...the non-fun of "current" electric vehicles...not many options or models; hard to get if not in Cali and other coastal areas, and highish prices and lowish specs....all that will change over the next few year....

g

[Brammowannabe]

What happened to the good old day when you stepped on the gas and you engine actually got gas lol.  All the computer is doing is keeping you from giving the engine way more then it needs so your acceleration is more efficient.  If you know how to drive an old car you can go just as efficiently with no computer.  

On the EV side  (or any really powerful motor) there is a risk of damage to certain parts.  The first test driver on the Tesla roadster went to the hospital do to whip lash after his first drive.  They have since added limiters to it's acceleration.  Although the motor and batts technically can handle higher then 65, the rest of the drive train may not have been designed with that in mind.  Messing with acceleration curves could over stress parts like shocks, frame, chain etc.  In the EV world, limiters are there not just to help you drive more efficiently, but to keep you form ripping the thing apart.  Now if they could design it for 75 mph and have you hit a button to go into fast mode that would be awesome.  ofcourse you would not always want to be in that mode because a 65 limiter will encourage you to drive more efficiently.  When a bike goes 75 your not just stressing the motor, but the tires, the chain the brakes etc.

So in short, I think this is more of a design issue then a economy issue.  Also Brammo doesn't want tons of warranty claims so they are not going to let you push the bike any ware near its breaking point.  Assuming someone does figure out how to crack the code, I would use caution before pushing it much above stock.

[protomech]

I have faith that the Plus will have final numbers around 70 to 75 mph top speed.

The mileage will decrease quite a bit at that speed, but I really wouldn't mind having a bit more top end and a few less miles....

Mostly will be doing city riding at 40 mph, but would like to hit the highways for a few exits now and then.

I think we probably will see an increase in the Enertia Plus's top speed.


Brammofan queries Brammo on the Enertia motor and gets a bonus tidbit about the Enertia Plus motor:

The Enertia “Classic” model uses a Perm PMS-120 motor with a custom winding and some special parts for Brammo.

The Enertia Plus will ship with a Perm PMS-126 motor that greatly improves thermal performance and provides for slightly higher peak power, mostly stemming from improvements made to the manufacturing and calibration process of the motors at Perm in Germany. We have been very impressed/happy with the performance we’re seeing on the Enertia Plus prototypes running around Ashland.

I don't see specs for the PMS-126 online, so it's hard to say what this means as a change from the PMS-120 motor in the Enertia. However, there is a PMS-150 and a PMS-156 motor. Not including the motor jacket, the PMS-156 is about 25% thicker than the PMS-150, weighs about 28% more, and produces about 15% more (continuous S1) power. The PMS-120 to PMS-126 comparison is probably similar.

More mass means that under the same load a bigger motor should run cooler. Say, a 55-60 mph commute.

BrammoBrian states later in the thread:

The Enertia is not intended to be a freeway commuter, the Empulse is the bike for that.

I suspect that also applies to the Enertia Plus. While it may see its top speed rise to 70 or 75 mph, it will never be comfortable at those speeds. A headwind or a gentle slope would cause its speed to drop, possibly dangerously so depending on road traffic.

[Gavin]

Improved thermal performance is huge for me...I kinda hate the fan and anything that limits its use is a big bonus.

A slight increase in top speed will also be very welcome.

But I agree that the Enertia is not a highway commuter.

Interestingly, the Enertia is a great city commuter...obviously, but it is actually an even better suburban commuter. It is near flawless in suburban riding. Easy to ride and I leave every car in the dust from a light. And she love suburban speeds...45 mph and she purrs like a kitten...

It will do highway...but of the 1750 miles I've driven only about 20 have been on the highway. And if the Plus goes 70 or even 75 mph, I still won't do a lot of highway riding. She is light and, while not scary on the highway, well she just doesn't have the "girth" for long highway rides.

But we do have a lot of 55 and 60 mph roads out here and the plus would rock those roads....

That said, heck I've drive a few hundred highway miles on a 150cc scooter that weighs 220 pounds...so anything is doable if ya got the right amount of crazy

Gavin

[Gavin]

opps DP....

[Gavin]

New Enertia Plus Motor Controller which allows for greater configuration options and more robust communications with the Brammo VCU (Vehicle Control Unit).

and

Upgraded Motor - Although the power level remains the same, the actively air-cooled permanent magnet AC motor features greater efficiency which reduces the heat generated, allowing more performance to be pulled out of the bike before it reaches its thermal limit.

= YEAH....

Gavin

[Rano]

Hello, after all these days of waiting at your side, do you have a direct compare between Enertia and the Plus? Are there now "greater configuration options"? I do not see any?