Author Topic: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge  (Read 1001 times)

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Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« on: February 25, 2025, 11:22:42 AM »
Hi everyone,

after solving problems with my first steps in this forum I hope my posts are now shown completely.
 The skinny so far:
- bought an Enertia Plus for VERY small price - seller indicated that the bike stood since 2023 and now does not accept any charge
- thanks to KaFr and Corbin Dallas I managed to get the analysis SW installed - see attached Excel showing the last charge attempt - added a few lines from a 2013 log just for convenience

Initially I planned to disassemble both BPM modules to measure each cell, but now since I can see that the cells are all above 2.6 .... 3.0 volt, maybe a different approach might be better. But which one?

I am hoping for some good advice here.

Cheers
Mat

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Re: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2025, 05:59:24 AM »
Okay, this is what I did so far:

Step 1: Cable and Software
I have built a diagnosis cable for the battery modules. With the very good instructions Corbin Dallas has pointed me to I was able to finally get it running.
My lessons learned out of this:
I knew fresh from start that the Brammo/Victroy SW requires a LabView Runtime installed, which I did upfront. When I started the Victory Battery Diagnostics it wouldn't start, saying it could not find CVIRTE.DLL. First I thought it is only that one DLL - searched & found it and put in the same folder as the battery diagnostics executable. Again the diag did not start, this time with an undefined error.
It took me some time to figure out that cvirte.dll belongs to another Runtime from NI which is called CVI RT. Either I overlooked this bit of info or you guys have a much deeper understanding of the overall setup. Downloading and installing that one did the trick.
Also, I made the installation procedures initially with the latest available version (you can choose the year of the SW modules when you choose what to install from NIs homepage). Since I got an older laptop that can stay in my garage as exclusive diagnostice I reinstalled all the Runtimes and Softwares once again but this time using versions from 2014. That is definitively a good hint as those packages were much slimmer and faster with the installation process - and still work as intended.

Next, building the diagnosis cable: That step was an almost* straight forward process. I have ordered an adapter from Amazon Germany (since I am German): DSD TECH SH-U11 USB zu RS485 RS422 Konverter mit FTDI FT232R Chip.
*almost, because I ran into two issues: (i) the cable colors were different compared to what is given in the Brammo document 75165465_A.00 CABLE M12-PICOSPOX 1M.pdf. Simple measuring each cable resolved this. (ii) my adapter does not have D+ and D-, instead A+ and B-. Well, you can guess it: Use the plusses and the minusses. Also, I almost overlooked the comment in the post about PIN6 / Interlock_2/ and PIN5 / Interlock_1 / green wire. So read the post careful and you know how to do it!

Step 2: The batteries
When I picked up the bike, the seller mentioned it does not charge. Batteries are dead since 2023. Then I connect the charger, the bike does fire up but reports SYSTEM FAULT C3 and SEVERE UNDERVOLTAGE.
Okay, lets tackle the undervoltage first. Reading the log file showed that the lowest cell is at 2.6xxV - which is in a standard 18650 LiIon cell NOT beyond repair. The modules used in the E+ BPM 44-70 are using a different chemistry LiNiCoMnO2 where I could not find a threshold value (but I was not looking with too much energy).
I diassembled the bike with the intention to take out both batteries in order to be able to open them. But since the LOG file indicated voltages between 2.6 and 3.0V I simply connected a battery to a lab power supply, setting the voltage to 38V at 1A and allowed it to sit for a while (thanks to KaFr for your comments on Facebook Messenger!!! This was the right motivation and some guidance I needed!).
So disassembly was not really required - apart from taking the rear frame off to get better access to the main battery interconnection and the diagnostic connectors. Slimg agile fingers and a straight diag cable might even render that disassembly as not required.
Back to topic: After stable 38V were achieved and the battery diagnostic tool showed acceptable 0.050V imbalance, I applied 42V and 2A, afterwards 48V and 5A. The whole charginc process took almost three days as I was waiting for the current to get below 100mA for eacht target voltage. Same procedure then applied for the second battery.
The battery diagnostics tool still reported several errors but I dismissed them as being acceptable, like imbalance above 0.015V, temp sensor deviation readouts and others.
Strangely, it also reported 0% SOC until ca. 47V were achieved and it ended up with only 19%SOC at 48V. Also, the diag SW reportet an error here as values between 78 and 95% would have been expected.
I did not know and still don't how to interprete this and finally decided also to dismiss this low SOC.

Finally I reassembled the bike and fired it up immediately! SOC from the dashboard was showing 90% SOC. Yeah!!! I allowed the bike to sit for another 24hrs. Finally, I took it out for a test ride (the bike is not registered nor insured, so I did it late night at not s crowded streets and also just around the block - I felt like a 14-yr old doing somting forbidden). The bike did take looooong way to accelerate until 80kmph/50miles and it would have gone beyond but the street took some turns and did not allow much more.
Unfortunately I cannot plug in the diag cable again without dismounting the rear frame again, so I cannot verify if the diag tool still shows 19%SOC.

One problem still remains: A new system fault C2 - a generic charger fault. The charger gets warm, I can hear relais clicking and the dashboard reports the bike is in charge mode - but the batteries would not take any charge. KaFr has again provided some hints of what to check, so this story will probably continue!

I am hoping this provides some help or motivation for those out there who are undecided! Just go for it!!

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Re: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2025, 06:00:38 AM »
attached you can find my working draft for connecting the cable...

Brammofan

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Re: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2025, 09:46:03 AM »
Great news, most. Loved hearing about your midnight ride! Hope you can get some help on the charger.
The Brammoforum Wiki is still active: http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki

Korbin Dallas

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Re: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2025, 11:32:52 AM »
NICE !  What charger do you use on the bike? Do you have access to  a second charger just to verify that it is not the charger that is the problem. Also use a different outlet that the charger plugs into. Sounds like you have a runner. Awesome work.
2013 Brammo Empulse #602 INOP Sold
2016 Victory Empulse #199
2003 Suzuki SV1000S

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Re: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2025, 12:53:56 PM »
https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B0B8S5W8PZ?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

Not sure if this specific laboratory power supply is also available in the US, however, there should be several similar power supplies available. You adjust a voltage, and choose the max amps. When you start the charging, the battery obviously has a low voltage so it is constant current in the beginning. When it reaches the dialed voltage, it would switch to a constant voltage and reduce the current until the voltage is being kept. Very handy for this application. Aka CC/CV.

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Re: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2025, 12:59:15 AM »
KaFr was so kind to point me to the Enertia Plus wiring diagram, which I have attached here.
I have checked all in-cable fuses 2x15A and 1x5A - all okay. I also unplugged the connector C-05 from the on-board charger and it measures 99,1V with no load.

I know that yesterday I pretended to hear a Relais clicking when I started to charge - but looks like I was mistaken. Definitively no sound at all! I must confess I am not very good in reading wiring diagrams, so I am not sure if there has to be a contactor or relais.

Can anyone of you with a working Enertia Plus confirm that there is NO clicking when charging starts? Just wanna confirm if silence is good or bad ;D.


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Re: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2025, 10:53:05 AM »
No. Enertia models have a built in 750W AC-DC-Charger from Sevcon. The socket of that Sevcon gets classic wall outlet 110V (US) or 220V (Europe).
You posted a link of an ICCB (in cable control box, which is not a Charger. It is more like an interface.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2025, 12:44:01 PM by most »

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Re: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2025, 05:34:27 AM »
All,

at first kudos to @KaFr and @ways_ahead for the 24/7 support via messengers.

Time for a little update on my revival project.

I am member of a german forum www.GoingElectric.de since almost 10 years. This forum is car-centric but also has a motorcycle section. For my local area there is a forum meeting organized in a cosy little cafe on the outskirts of a smaller city every four weeks - an ideal place to present my charger issues and have the experts look at that thing and come up with suggestions.

Unfortunately, the findings did not really lead to a solution but maybe it might be of interest for you what the experts were concluding on:

I brought the charger electronics for visual inspection and also a Fluke multimeter in case something should me measured. Actually, the inspection showed that there is no suspicious part. Everything at least looks like it should work perfectly.

I also brought a larger printout of the wire diagram which we analyzed.

When the charger is connected to AC, the signal AC_sense is on high level. This signal goes into the VCU in connector C-01 Pin 15 as U2C Charger_AC_SENS. We believe (!!no fact, assumption!!) that the VCU has the task to check if charging conditions are valid. Could be done like temperature conditions, undervoltage. See my initial post where I mentioned the dashboard shows severe undervoltage. It looks like then the VCU signals back to the charger a signal on C1 (VCU connector C-01 Pin 27) - probably HIGH. The charger may start charging. There is also a direct signal between VCU and the Batterie RS485 bus: Pin 26 Charger enable. However I have not yet found a method to tap into that signal to see if it is there or not. But I can perfectly measure the connector C-04 on the disassembled charger.

This is what I have observed (it took me a while to figure out how BBCode works  ;) ):

Pin C-04   Key-Off   Key-On   Charging
1 - NC...
2 - FanPWR_Out   +1.15V+1.1V+1.15V
3 - FanPWR_inGND+12V+12.5V
4 - AC_SENSE+1.44V+1.45V+9.4V
5 - WARNING+1.5V+1.5V+1.5V
6 - NC...
7 - BATT -.closed.
8 - NC...
9 - C2openopen+0.6V
10 - FAULT+1.5V+1.5V+1.5V
11 - C1openopen+0.6V
12 - NC...


Ladies & Gentlemen, now its your turn. Please help me! What are the proposed next steps here?

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Re: Revival Project: 2013 E+ that does not accept charge
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2025, 10:20:35 AM »
Fortgot to mention that the bike also does not recuperate.