Battery Diagnostics error message "The battery type could not be detected..."

[ways_ahead]

Hello everybody,

I am trying to revitalise the batteries of a Brammo Empulse E1 which was not recharged since 2019. Charging does not work, nothing happens. If i switch on the bike with the key, nothing happens.

So far, I have connected a communication cable to module 1, the comm cables between the modules are all connected. I powered up 12 Volt through the cable and see green LEDs on the upper modules on. I haven't looked at the lower modules, I assume they are on, too.

The Victory Batt Diag Software finds my USB-RS485 Adapter as COM5. I click "Connection > Auto connect" and get a popup message:

"The battery type could not be detected. A configuration update might need to be performed."

If I click OK I get the other attached screen.

Maybe I should mention that the communication cable is fresh self-made. I haven't yet seen it working.

Any ideas what I can do?
Do the screens confirm that the communication works?
Or can failing communication cause the error?
Or does the Victory Software not work with Brammo's Brammos?

Regards,
Ralph

[EV promise]

Hello way_ahead, first thing to confirm is your usb rs485 adapter has the FTDI chip for the software to connect. Second there is a battery disconnect plug under the cover above the radiator ( looks like a welding connector) is that connected?
It's always possible the cells have no charge. The last couple of files from the usb data logger under the seat posted on here would also help to see what happened last.
Hope this helps

[ways_ahead]

Hi EV promise,
thanks for your reply.
My RS485 adapter has a CH340 chipset. A CH340SER driver is installed, COM4 is recognised by the Victory diag SW. IT Looks good so far, but If really an FTDI chip ist required then I will buy a new adapter before I continue.

[Korbin Dallas]

I agree about the correct chip. Also disconnect the communication cable from the other battery so that it is only reading one at a time

[ways_ahead]

Thanks, Korbin. I watched your YT channel. Great videos about the batteries, very informative!

FTDI adapter is ordered and should arrive after the weekend.

Meanwhile another question:
I have a functional Brammo Empulse R and this "dead" Empulse E1 (frame was broken in an accident).
When I connect 12V to the batteries of the E1 green LEDs go permanently on.
When I switch on the R the green LEDs are flashing.
So I assume flashing LEDs means "ok", but what does "permanently on" mean?

[ways_ahead]

Update:
I got my FTDI Adapter (https://www.amazon.de/dp/B07B416CPK) today and immediately tried it again after installing the FTDI drivers.
First try was with all 7 modules connected. It showed the same error message and screen as with the CH340 chip adapter. I then tried the module qualification test. All voltages were 0 and it failed.
Then I disconnected the comm cable to module 2 and tested only module 1. Again I got the same error message. The output of the qualification test is shown below:

13:35:53 Qualification: Test Start

FAIL: module 1 cell 1, voltage = ,0,000000,
FAIL: module 1 cell 2, voltage = ,0,000000,
FAIL: module 1 cell 3, voltage = ,0,000000,
FAIL: module 1 cell 4, voltage = ,0,000000, min allowed volts = ,3,000000, max allowed volts = ,4,200000

PASS: cell imbalance test, max cell imbalance (mV) = ,15,000000

FAIL: module 1, SOC % = ,100, max allowed SOC % = ,10,00, min allowed SOC % = ,0,00

FAIL: status bits test, module 1, SMBus too many errors, SMBus no comm

PASS: max cell temperature test, max allowed cell temp (C) = ,60,000000

PASS: max cell differential test, max temperature differential allowed (C) = ,4,000000

PASS: reference temperature difference test, max allowed temp difference (C) = ,5,000000

FAIL: module 1, humidity (%) = ,0, min humidity (%) = ,5,000000, max humidity (%) = ,90,000000

FAIL: module 1, Bit 4   Stale Data, Bit 14   SMBus Fail, Bit 15   Interlock path opened

PASS: fuse state OK

PASS: module current test, max allowed avg. (A) = ,0,200000, min allowed avg. (A) = ,-0,200000

PASS: fan test

13:36:24 Qualification test failed.


The RX/TX LEDs on my adapter are both flashing about once a second, the communication seems to work. But the software seems not to recognise the module type.

[ways_ahead]

Update:
To verify that my setup works I connected it to my healthy Empulse R. And it worked :-).

This is the log of the qualification test:

15:30:14 Qualification: Test Start

PASS: cell voltage tests, min allowed volts = ,3,000000, max allowed volts = ,4,200000
PASS: cell imbalance test, max cell imbalance (mV) = ,15,000000
PASS: module 1, SOC % = ,97, max allowed SOC % = ,100,00, min allowed SOC % = ,85,10
PASS: module 2, SOC % = ,96, max allowed SOC % = ,100,00, min allowed SOC % = ,84,62
PASS: module 3, SOC % = ,97, max allowed SOC % = ,100,00, min allowed SOC % = ,85,46
PASS: module 4, SOC % = ,98, max allowed SOC % = ,100,00, min allowed SOC % = ,85,61
PASS: module 5, SOC % = ,97, max allowed SOC % = ,100,00, min allowed SOC % = ,85,35
PASS: module 6, SOC % = ,96, max allowed SOC % = ,100,00, min allowed SOC % = ,84,75
PASS: module 7, SOC % = ,97, max allowed SOC % = ,100,00, min allowed SOC % = ,84,88
PASS: pack charge imbalance % = ,2, max  allowed imbalance % = ,10,000000
PASS: status bits test
FAIL: pack imbalance = ,46,000000, mV, max pack imbalance = ,30,000000, mV
PASS: max cell temperature test, max allowed cell temp (C) = ,60,000000
PASS: max cell differential test, max temperature differential allowed (C) = ,4,000000
PASS: reference temperature difference test, max allowed temp difference (C) = ,5,000000
PASS: module humidity test, min humidity (%) = ,5,000000, max humidity (%) = ,90,000000
PASS: humidity reading mismatch = ,18,000000,%, max allowed mismatch = ,30,000000,%
PASS: comm faults test
PASS: fuse state OK
PASS: all configuration parameters the same
FAIL: module 1, avg. current reading (A) = ,-2,733333, max allowed avg. (A) = ,0,200000, min allowed avg. (A) = ,-0,200000
FAIL: module 2, avg. current reading (A) = ,-3,588889, max allowed avg. (A) = ,0,200000, min allowed avg. (A) = ,-0,200000
FAIL: module 3, avg. current reading (A) = ,-3,500000, max allowed avg. (A) = ,0,200000, min allowed avg. (A) = ,-0,200000
FAIL: module 4, avg. current reading (A) = ,-3,111111, max allowed avg. (A) = ,0,200000, min allowed avg. (A) = ,-0,200000
FAIL: module 5, avg. current reading (A) = ,-3,233333, max allowed avg. (A) = ,0,200000, min allowed avg. (A) = ,-0,200000
FAIL: module 6, avg. current reading (A) = ,-3,488889, max allowed avg. (A) = ,0,200000, min allowed avg. (A) = ,-0,200000
FAIL: module 7, avg. current reading (A) = ,-3,544444, max allowed avg. (A) = ,0,200000, min allowed avg. (A) = ,-0,200000

15:30:37 Qualification test failed.

There are some fails I can't explain. Maybe the heaters are on?

Here I have Comm Firmware 5.01.03, BMP Firmware 0x12E4 and BMP Configuration 95498989 D.03.
The dead Empulse shows Comm Firmware 5.00.95, BMP Firmware 0x0000 and BMP Configuration empty.

I guess I have to separate one of the empty modules, charge it and try again. Any other ideas?

[Korbin Dallas]

Please try one battery module at a time. Disconnect the communication cables from the top of the battery then connect only your adapter to the top of the battery. Then when you connect the software only th battery you are connected to will be highlighted. You can run the quality test then. And post what it says.

[ways_ahead]

I did that, see 2 posts up 08:10:45 AM.

[Korbin Dallas]

On the empulse R have you left the charger plugged in and let the cells balance? On the dash when plugged in and charging. Push the two buttons at once and it will show the cells balancing. It will take many hours for it to balance and it will show 100 % charged. I don

[ways_ahead]

I charged the Empulse R to 100% yesterday. Today when I ran the diagnosis the charger was not connected and the bike was switched off.

[Korbin Dallas]

Sorry I missed that.  Yes you should try and charge a single battery on the empulse   I would bring it up slowly. Maybe 1 amp for a while to see if it will charge a little. Have to step away for a bit. I will check back with you

[ways_ahead]

Thanks, I'll try that and post the result.

[ways_ahead]

Currently I am a bit reluctant to disassemble the battery modules from the bike. So I just disconnected the big plug between the upper and the lower batteries and connected my power supply directly to module 4. The voltage of module 4 was 0 in the beginning. I set the power supply to constant current 0.5 A and startet charging. The voltage slowly went up. After about 15 minutes I set the constant current to 1 A. Now after about 2 hours the voltage is 8.5 V and still 1 A.

I will stop charging for today, don't want to charge without monitoring it. I'll continue in the next days whenever I find the time to stay near it.

My strategy for now is to bring module 4 up to 14 or 15 V and then connect the battery diag sw to see if it works. If yes, I might charge modules 1-3 at the same time in series with 0.5 > 1 > maybe up to 3 A. And then the lower modules.

Is that a good plan?

[Korbin Dallas]

Yes. if you could just charge each battery separately it might help to see if you have one bad cell. bring them all up to the same voltage as close as possible then see if the qualification test runs. you could run the qual test now on the one that has voltage and see if the test registers the voltage .