Author Topic: How I screwed up  (Read 5822 times)

Brammofan

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How I screwed up
« on: June 02, 2011, 11:13:13 AM »
It was long, cold winter. Every day I walked into my garage and saw my Enertia, sitting quietly, fully charged, ready for even a momentary break in the weather. 
Sometimes, I'd go up to it and start it up, just to hear the sound and read the dash, which always comforted me with the news: 99% charged.  Little did I know that my melancholy obsession with reading the state of charge would harm my beloved bike.

Apparently, one time that I did the old start-up routine, I turned the bike off and, (my guess here, but it's as good as any) turned the key to "charge" and then back to "off" . . . except I went past "off" and left the key in the "on" position.  For a couple of weeks. 

The next time I went to check on the bike, I turned the key (hmmm, must have left it "on", I'll just turn it off and then on) and hit the start button.  The dash showed a H34 fault code, which, according to the owner's manual, required me to contact Brammo.  BrammoJen got back to me within a couple of hours and had about 8 steps of diagnostics to help her track down the problem.  Step 4 required me taking off the body panels, which I'd always wanted to do. In this step, she said:
Quote
This step depends on how comfortable you are with taking off the body panels.  If you feel comfortable and have your owner’s manual go to page 55 and follow the instructions.  If you don’t feel comfortable taking them off let me know and I will talk to Danny about coming to diagnose and fix your bike.
I followed all the steps - the early ones required basic things like turning the key to "on" making sure the lights were on, kicking up the kickstand, reading the dash to see if any additional codes came up, etc.
The later steps required me to unhook the blue plug (main power connect to the batteries) and to undo some other connections prior to checking some fuses. Once I had done all this and none of the fuses were blown, she determined that it was probably one of two parts that were more challenging to replace, and so she ended up coming out for a service visit the next week.

As it turned out, the parts did not need to be replaced.  When she got to my house and started looking at the logs (via the USB key under the seat), she saw what I had done.  I'm not sure why she didn't have me just send her the logs, but perhaps the fault code didn't lead her to that conclusion.  Once she looked at the logs and figured out that I had left the bike in the "ON" position, she fixed it by pressing a sort of "reset" button that is near the front of bike (the body panels are off) and up by the forks.  This had a little LED that was glowing red.  She held the reset button for a long time... like two or more minutes?...and it turned green.

So, what problem did I cause by leaving the bike "ON"?  I wish she'd come here and explain (I'll ask her to), but what it did was drain the "pre-charge" to the point that the bike's systems disabled themselves to protect the batteries. 

The next time I take the body panels off, I will take a picture of the "reset button."
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Gavin

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2011, 11:32:46 AM »
cool...so an easyish fix...

I shouldn't have this problem as my bike will never sit more than a few days...and only then in the summer as I do mostly bicycle riding...

but even in the summer I will have to do some night trips and such a couple of times a week and I don't ride my bicycle at night.

I figure just about everyday riding will keep from having this issue :)

Gavin

Gavin

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2011, 11:34:01 AM »
i wonder if brammo could make a finger hole in the body work so one can do a reset without taking off the body work?

Gavin

protomech

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2011, 12:29:09 PM »
This is the sort of first-generation issue that Brammo (and other manufacturers) need to fix before EV bikes can go mainstream. The Enertia Plus is supposed to have a simplified charging procedure, hopefully it also includes enough self-awareness to prevent damaging or disabling itself.
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Brammofan

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2011, 12:52:13 PM »
Version 1 - self awareness to prevent damaging itself.
Version 2 - self awareness to prevent damaging OR disabling itself.
Version 2.5 - Sarah Conner?

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protomech

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2011, 01:36:44 PM »
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
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FreepZ

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2011, 10:10:18 PM »
The good news was that the bike did protect itself. Sure, the protection could be improved, but at least the poor machine didn't melt! :-\ If some engineer hadn't thought about that possibility, you may have ended up with a lot more damage.
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protomech

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2011, 10:56:51 AM »
The good news was that the bike did protect itself. Sure, the protection could be improved, but at least the poor machine didn't melt! :-\ If some engineer hadn't thought about that possibility, you may have ended up with a lot more damage.

I wish that same engineer had thought to include an automatic shutdown after some (programmable? default to say 1 hour) time spent in an on-but-inactive uncharged state. Unless the user explicitly indicates otherwise, there's no reason for the bike to remain powered on but unused for a period of time sufficient to disable the bike.
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HighlanderMWC

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2011, 01:58:00 PM »
I wish that same engineer had thought to include an automatic shutdown after some (programmable? default to say 1 hour) time spent in an on-but-inactive uncharged state. Unless the user explicitly indicates otherwise, there's no reason for the bike to remain powered on but unused for a period of time sufficient to disable the bike.

I don't think they have a lot of prior art to go on, and that's usually where engineers are best. While you can say you want them to save the user from themselves they do have to draw the line somewhere. If you turn your ICE ignition on your car to ON and leave it for a couple of days you're going to find that it doesn't work either and you likely won't be able to "reset" it. The fact that Jen didn't immediately diagnose the issue tells me this fault isn't something they've run across very often.

Personally I think that the charging/starting process is overly complicated by "features". In an ideal world there would be no need for anything except plugging/unplugging (and kickstand) and everything else would be taken care of automatically.

Here's the start process I go through every morning:
1) unplug
2) turn key from charge to on
3) press tank button for one second - seems completely superfluous...it would seem to be something that could be directly tied to turning the key
4) after bootup set kill switch to running - seems redundant
5) turn on headlight - you have to manually switch the headlight off when charging. By default the headlight control should be automatic (on while running and off while charging)
6) kickstand up

Gavin

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2011, 02:00:27 PM »
Supposedly the new Brammos will have a much simplier start up procedure...I just don't know what that is yet :)

I'll let you know when I get my Plus....

Gavin

Brammofan

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2011, 02:03:08 PM »
... What Gavin said ...
Highlander - yours and mine will be quaint relics of a bygone era.  "A tank button? Well, isn't that cute!"
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HighlanderMWC

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2011, 07:02:16 PM »
Supposedly the new Brammos will have a much simplier start up procedure...I just don't know what that is yet :)

I'll let you know when I get my Plus....

Gavin
Luckily habits are quickly learned if you can stay consistent. After over a thousand startups I find none of it gets in the way. Starting up coming off the plug is no problem at all and the multi-second tank button press away from home is now built into my suiting up routine (my right hand is busy zipping/fastening). I've also learned to always hit the kill switch first when stopping. I rode a lot of years on ICE bikes where I didn't touch the killswitch at all.

brammojen

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2011, 09:51:07 PM »
Hey guys!!  Brammojen here.

The problem with Brammofan's bike was multiplied by the bike being left plugged in and in "discharge mode".  If you put the bike in "Charge" mode but don't plug it in the bike will automatically turn itself off thus the safety mode feature of the bike.  Hope this helps.

protomech

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2011, 03:43:12 PM »
Hey guys!!  Brammojen here.

The problem with Brammofan's bike was multiplied by the bike being left plugged in and in "discharge mode".  If you put the bike in "Charge" mode but don't plug it in the bike will automatically turn itself off thus the safety mode feature of the bike.  Hope this helps.

Good to hear. Hopefully the Enertia Plus's power controls should make it a little harder for the user to shoot themselves in the foot like that : )
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GOZR

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Re: How I screwed up
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2021, 12:56:12 PM »
Thank you i have the same problem, all panels off and i cannot find the reset button as mentioned!  Any help on the location.? Thanks