Brammo and Polaris

[Brammofan]

Polaris stock price (PII) hits 52 week high today.  $62.00. 
Coincidence?
I think not.
 

[Gavin]

Ha, yeah I didn't expect to see and buy one...just check out the store, the staff and ask about electric rides...

I wonder if the delay in delivery is due to wanting us to get our bikes from these dealerships

Gavin

[Brammofan]

Just saw this:

Snapshot of the Motorcycle Industry

Overall sales are up about 10% this year from a year ago.
Harley Davidson (NYSE:HOG) and Polaris (NYSE:PII ) (which owns Indian and Victory Motorcycles), are the industry's top guns, collectively owning well over 50% of the U.S. market. Both companies (having recently reported Q3 earnings) have had strong rebounds and are showing phenomenal growth in an industry that is supposedly underwater. Polaris recently raised its sales growth outlook to 30% to 32% based on a solid – and better than expected - third quarter. Sales of off-road vehicles rose 25% and fueled significant market share gains by ATVs in the North American market. Sales of Victory Motorcycles were up 77% compared to figures from the same period last year. Even "Parts, Garments and Accessories" sales increased 21%.

[2Slow4u]

Knowing the main power train components that go into this type of EV, I would say the only thing that would give Polaris a leg up on some "new" tech that would be worth that kind of investment would be the transmission. If Brammo has that figured out, it would apply to all of polaris's products (most based of motorcycle style transmissions). It allows for higher performance with a smaller electric motor which translates to lower cost.

Either way, congrats to all parties involved. This is a boost of confidence that I'm not waiting on vaporware.

[protomech]

I'm getting more and more psyched about this as time goes by.  It's reminding me a lot of how Tesla (and the credibility of the 4 wheel EV segment as a whole) benefited when Toyota invested in the company.  Before that happened, Tesla was a boutique brand with a vague future.  Afterwards, it was a serious manufacturer with real promise.  Not sure when the Model S was announced, but it was pretty close to the same time as this deal.

2008 Jun - Model S announced. Tesla talking about building Model S in northern California.
2009 Aug - Toyota announces NUMMI will be closed.
2010 May - Tesla in talks to buy NUMMI, future EV development plans with Toyota.
2010 Jul - Toyota announced RAV 4 EV with Tesla powertrain.

[Brammofan]

Okay, protomech... keepin' me honest.   I stand corrected.

[Brammofan]

Best financially-focused article of the day, so far:
http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2011/10/26/channeling-tesla-brammo-zooms-to-polaris-partnership/?mod=google_news_blog

Yeah... Bramscher did the whole Tesla is to Toyota as Brammo is to Polaris thing.... but apparently came up with it a few months ago.

Also, Polaris made about $100 million in market capital appreciation today.  So they got that going for them.

[skadamo]

Seems to me this is a great partnership with an investor that knows how to break into the powersports business. When I first saw a Victory cruiser I though... "good luck". But they made the right moves and pulled it off.

This should be interesting!

[Richard230]

The nice thing about Polaris is that they do things their own way and can certainly think outside the box. They are willing to take risks and will stick with the program and are willing to fund expensive changes until they get it right.

I agree with Skadamo that Polaris got off to a slow and rocky start with Victory. But they have managed to fix all of Victory's initial mechanical problems, do their own unique design thing, instead of following the Harley herd, and have become a well respected and successful motorcycle manufacturer - to say nothing about all of the other powersport and industrial products that they make.

I think Brammo will have a great future if they take advantage of Polaris's design, production and marketing expertise.

[skadamo]

The nice thing about Polaris is that they do things their own way and can certainly think outside the box.

And they know when they strayed too far outside the box. e.g this concept they put into prod...

http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/12/12/victory-vision-800cc-parallel-twin-automatic-concept/

Although you could fit a lot of electronics in that monster

[Vibetrippin]

Taken from the financial article posted above:
“Our technology lends a lot to their product line,” Bramscher said. “We think we have the best batteries and best motor drive out there and will work well together.”

Did I miss something? When did Brammo start producing batteries?

[Richard230]

Skadamo said:

And they know when they strayed too far outside the box. e.g this concept they put into prod...

Although you could fit a lot of electronics in that monster

I'll agree with you on that one. Too far out of the box for me. On the other hand, they didn't build it.   

Vibetrippen, I noticed that quote, too. And I had the same thought. I know that Brammo is assembling batteries in their factory in Oregon made from Chinese-sourced lithium-ion battery parts (having got that directly from a Brammo representative), but I am not sure what they are doing with them.  Testing, I assume.

However, I wasn't aware that Brammo was building their own motors. Or is a "motor drive" something different than just a motor?  I keep feeling like I really have no idea what Brammo is up to.   

But guessing is always entertaining.   

[protomech]

Here's my guess:

Brammo takes third party cells and adds their own battery management (and charging?) hardware/software, and integrates third party motor and motor controllers into a drive system, with custom control logic. Likely they're shopping those technologies out to various parties (especially Polaris), just as Mission Motors is doing.

They've been billing Brammo Power® battery packs in the Enertia Plus and Empulse for a while now. I haven't seen a specific branding for the powertrain units, but Brammo Drive® would be a logical extension.

[skadamo]

They've been billing Brammo Power® battery packs in the Enertia Plus and Empulse for a while now. I haven't seen a specific branding for the powertrain units, but Brammo Drive® would be a logical extension.

Yeah good call. Why not? Unless Polaris wants it all to themselves.

[Richard230]

It just occurred to me that Brammo may also be speaking of their motor/transmission drive train when they speak of their "motor drive".  That certainly is innovative for a mass produced electric vehicle. Even Tesla couldn't get that to work in their production cars.