Author Topic: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo  (Read 2370 times)

Brammofan

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Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« on: November 01, 2011, 09:23:36 AM »
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Gavin

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 10:37:36 AM »
Quote
is proud to announce that following extensive evaluation by multiple departments of the Hong Kong Government to explore the adoption of more electric vehicles for public sector use, the Hong Kong Government has selected Brammo electric motorcycles to replace existing conventional petrol motorcycles in the Government fleet which have been in service for several years.

Following EXTENSIVE evaluation....that is the key point...

Same with the TTXGP racing win...Brammo wasn't the fastest, but they were the most RELIABLE...and to a consumer that is key. Brammo was at the races and finishing them all with good times...In Hong Kong Brammo was running their bikes every day without issues...

This is what will sell bikes (well yes, good looks and speedy bikes will too...but having them run day after day after day is what will sell a second bike...and a third....etc etc)

Being the Honda Accord of the EV motorcycle world is not a bad thing and surely beats being the Dodge Viper of the EV motorcycle world...

Gavin

Gavin

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 10:45:02 AM »
ohhh, can I get the Enertia Plus LE (Law Enforcement) for myself...because I'm the LAW at my house....


(sneaks a peek to make sure wife isn't nearby to see that last sentence)...

Ha...

Gavin

(actually wouldn't mind a LE loaner for a bit to ride over to the University of New Mexico security office...I know they would love a couple for their patrols of the campus...actually Brammo should hire me to ride around the country to different campuses to show them the PLUS LE and let them use them for a few days...they would sell themselves...i can't imagine that any of the campus police officers would willingly give up the bikes after using them for a bit.)


protomech

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 11:10:18 AM »
I think there's room for both Accords and Vipers in the EV world : ) And who knows, the Vipers might actually be cleaner than the Accords.. see Tesla Roadster (30 kwh/100 mi) vs Leaf (34 kwh/100 mi).

The press release calls the bikes 2012 Enertia Plus. But it also says:
Quote
Brammo’s first-in-class product has garnered widespread attention and support since its initial introduction to Hong Kong streets over one year ago. Among its early advocates was Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke, who admired the Enertia Plus at an all-U.S. Electric Vehicle Showcase over which the then-Secretary presided in May 2010 at Hong Kong’s Disneyland, as part of the Clean Energy Mission he led to Hong Kong and mainland China.

Enertia Plus was announced in October 2010. Either the PR is wrong or the Secretary got an early sneak peek.

No word on delivery date or delivery quantity. Will be interesting to see if the first production runs of the Enertia Plus head to Hong Kong.
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Gavin

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 11:51:36 AM »
Oh definitely, but you will sell many more Accords...The Vipers are Halo rides that get people to the showroom, the Accords are what keeps the company running and the paychecks flowing to the employees...

As for Pluses heading to HK before the pre-orders...heck, I'm fine with that...the Hungary plant has been running for some time...I assume those bikes are going somewhere...Hong Kong is a good place for them***...

Gavin

edit ***my garage is a good second place for one of them too....
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 12:11:37 PM by Gavin »

SamM

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Re: Hong Kong Police Choose Brammo
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2011, 12:29:02 AM »
So, the Hong Kong Police are going to get their Brammos before I get mine? They announce today that they are going to "explore the adoption of more electric vehicles" and I ordered mine back in Feb. 2011. Everyone already knows that all the Chinese will do is reverse engineer and copy them anyway. How smart is this? I'm more likely to get the Chinese Brammo copy at one third the price before I can get the real thing.

This deal stinks more and more everyday! Brammo is losing customers! I may chose to NOT adopt the Brammo as my first electric vehicle.

SamM


protomech

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2011, 08:20:03 AM »
We don't know that they're getting Enertia Pluses before the regular preorders go out. I think it's likely, however -- especially as the two letters at the end of Enertia Plus LE likely add a few grand to the cost.

Suppose Brammo gets an order for 100 $15k EPLs. They can ship them in spring 2013 when all other preorders have been filled or ship them in spring 2012 ahead of the $9k line. If I were Brammo, I'd go ahead and take care of the $1.5M in orders first. Who knows, they might even get some real-world user feedback that they can quickly incorporate into the rest of the bikes.

I don't think the HK police are in the business of reverse-engineering bikes.
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Richard230

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 09:56:48 AM »
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

EmpulseRider

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Re: Hong Kong Police Choose Brammo
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 11:44:13 AM »
So, the Hong Kong Police are going to get their Brammos before I get mine? They announce today that they are going to "explore the adoption of more electric vehicles" and I ordered mine back in Feb. 2011. Everyone already knows that all the Chinese will do is reverse engineer and copy them anyway. How smart is this? I'm more likely to get the Chinese Brammo copy at one third the price before I can get the real thing.

This deal stinks more and more everyday! Brammo is losing customers! I may chose to NOT adopt the Brammo as my first electric vehicle.

SamM



Yes, its a bummer that Brammo isnt focusing solely on getting bikes out to pre-ordering customers, BUT they do appear to be taking a more strategic approach that customers will benefit from in the long run. Brammo is doing a great job of expanding their market and the infrastructure to support it. Bigger markets lead to more sales, which lead to lower prices for everyone. Its also nice to know that I may be able to take my Empulse to a Polaris dealer if I run into issues.

Gavin

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 11:51:02 AM »
from the Brammo Parx thread...this reply kinda works here too:

Quote
Getting the bikes to the Parxs is a good business decision...bikes seen and bike ridden will = sales in Europe...and Europe will be a big buyer of electric bikes compared to the States...especially early on (America will catch on a bit slower)

and really the Parxs, at first, only need a few bikes each...so around a hundred bikes...that would only be a weeks worth of bikes coming out of Hungary...if Hungary is currently making any Encites and Engages...I don't really know what Hungary is doing at this moment...

Either way, bikes for the Parxs won't be a delay for Pluses and bikes for the Parxs is a good business decision for Brammo...

A hundred (or two or three?) Pluses and Plus LEs going to Hong Kong also isn't a major reason for Plus delays...again, Hungary can make that in a couple of weeks...

The delay on the Pluses is likely due to 2 reasons:

Polaris deal...I assume they want all bikes delivered through their dealerships...this causes a delay in that staff needs training, floorspace arranged, paperwork done up, parts and service worked out...etc etc

NEW BATTERY TECH: as soon as I heard that the Plus was getting a new battery I was pretty sure there would be a delay in delivery...Believe you me, I WANT my Plus ASAP...like last Sept Smiley...but I also know about new electric vehicle start ups...and they are always a bit slower than expected...and ANY major component change is usually a mild to moderate delay...Battery change is a biggie...That HAS to be done RIGHT (or huge expense and BAD press down the road).

So getting bikes to Hong Kong...GOOD....Getting bikes to Parx...GOOD...me being delayed my ride...bad, but A) understandable  B) likely unavoidable...

For Brammo it is better to get bikes to Hong Kong and Parx...and ultimately Brammo's success helps me too...and I still don't think HK or Parx is the delay...Polaris and Battery change are more likely the delay and both those things are important for Brammo's future...

Now if I don't have my Plus for Spring riding season...well then I might rethink my zen-like calmness Smiley

Gavin

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Re: Hong Kong Police Choose Brammo
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 11:58:03 AM »
Yes, its a bummer that Brammo isnt focusing solely on getting bikes out to pre-ordering customers, BUT they do appear to be taking a more strategic approach that customers will benefit from in the long run. Brammo is doing a great job of expanding their market and the infrastructure to support it. Bigger markets lead to more sales, which lead to lower prices for everyone. Its also nice to know that I may be able to take my Empulse to a Polaris dealer if I run into issues.

Not only lower prices and infrastructure, but really Brammo surviving and succeeding is hugely important...If I buy a Brammo and the company folds, well I have a hard time getting service, repairs, upgrades etc etc...

I want Brammo to be around for years and years...Hong Kong and Parx help that more than my getting a bike first...

So if Hong Kong and Parx go ahead of me...ok, fine...and if they want to go the "Fisker route" and give one or two to some celebrity that brings some press and such to Brammo...ok, fine...but if they start selling them at the local Polaris dealer before I get mine I might get a bit less calm.... :)

gavin


ps...can i change my Plus to a Plus LE?? I want people to respect my authority...
« Last Edit: November 02, 2011, 12:00:16 PM by Gavin »

thespecialone

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 12:08:34 PM »
Its an interesting picture you paint SamM but not one that I recognize.
Let me share some facts - the first people to buy the Enertia when it went on sale were Jianshe in China who bought two and shipped them to China, this is over two years ago now. We have visited their factory - it is a very impressive gas bike facility.
The Hong Kong police order will have no measurable impact on the delivery of bikes to customers either in the USA, Europe or Asia.
Designing and building vehicles requires huge up-front investment, so the key to success is volume. This order is good for Brammo and good for Brammo customers everywhere. The Hong Kong police have tested the bike every day for almost 9 months now - what a vote of confidence in the build quality, reliability and safety of the Brammo motorcycles.... I am sure Mr Takanobu Ito has been asking questions!!
Adrian

SamM

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 03:46:51 PM »
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I don't think the HK police are in the business of reverse-engineering bikes.

First, I never said the Hong Kong Police were going to reverse-engineer bikes. I said the Chinese would. The Police in Hong Kong are a state run organization. In China, everything is run by the state. Remember they're communists. Should I really need to explain this?

Quote
Its an interesting picture you paint SamM but not one that I recognize.
Let me share some facts - the first people to buy the Enertia when it went on sale were Jianshe in China who bought two and shipped them to China, this is over two years ago now. We have visited their factory - it is a very impressive gas bike facility.
The Hong Kong police order will have no measurable impact on the delivery of bikes to customers either in the USA, Europe or Asia.
Designing and building vehicles requires huge up-front investment, so the key to success is volume. This order is good for Brammo and good for Brammo customers everywhere. The Hong Kong police have tested the bike every day for almost 9 months now - what a vote of confidence in the build quality, reliability and safety of the Brammo motorcycles.... I am sure Mr Takanobu Ito has been asking questions!!

Secondly, I never said volume sales weren't good for Brammo or Brammo customers. I know how this works. Brammo needs investment money in order to proceed. I asked a question. Oddly, I wasn't asking Brammo. I was asking potential buyers on an Owner's Forum. You chose to answer here. Brammo has been saying one thing and then another. I get the emails. The line now is beginning in 2011. And simply stating that the Hong Kong Police sale won't have a measurable impact means nothing to me. There has already been a measurable impact. Dates have been pushed back. And I signed up to buy an American motorcycle made by an American company. Then suddenly production moved overseas and still no bike. In this economy, do you think that it a good idea? I no longer drive import cars for various reasons but I do have import motorcycles just because no American manufacturer makes anything worthwhile anymore. I really thought that was about to change and have told most of my close friends about the Brammo. The delays have made electric motorcycles look like a joke. And one more thing... the build quality of the Brammo did not concern me. It's interesting that it now concerns you! Why would you need vindication from the Chinese? That's not where I would look for vindication. That's sad!   

It's also interesting to know that the Chinese already have the Brammo and are working on it. Which I assure you they are but then you know that, don't you? When can we expect to see Chinese made parts enter into Brammo manufacturing? Or will the Chinese manufacture the Brammo for the Asian market? Is that the model we will get here in America? These are all simple questions. Can we get some answers? When can we expect to see our bikes? Where will they be made?

Brammo has some good loyal customers right here that would have got the word out and effected sale here. Brammo was sourcing American made batteries and parts. Brammo could have effected things right here in America and put good people to work... HERE! It seems as if Brammo has lost track of something along their path. Those empty ships going back to China could have been carrying Brammo electric motorcycles. Instead you sold them two? I'm not sure I can support the current line of thinking... whatever that is! This seems to be the way of most manufacturing here in America now and sadly... I fear that this outsourcing/global production, whatever you want to call it and government regulation will destroy our economy. To be really honestly, it already has. We import far too much as it is. I bought into the Brammo hype about a GREEN company and a bike designed and made right here in America. It appears that this was too much to hope for!

Until proven wrong, I'll stick to my original comment... this deal stinks more and more everyday!

SamM

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 05:44:17 PM »
I think the plan was to build the bikes locally within US, Asian, and European markets. Our US ordered Brammos will be built in the US... that's still my understanding, and I hope that doesnt change because it is a selling point for me as well, but I dont have any reason to think that the plan has changed.

Gavin

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Re: Hong Kong Chooses Brammo
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 06:03:05 PM »
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the long term plan is: North American bikes built in N.A. Euro bikes built in Hungary. Asian bike build in Asia...that is the most enviromentally sound way to do it...and cheaper with less shipping.

But I don't think they are there yet (unless they use Polaris manufacturing sites for N.A.)...I believe any 2012 bike shipped will be Hungary built as I think that is the only manufacturing site up and running....I could easily be wrong.

Now you can order a 2010 or 2011 Enertia model (same as Fan's, though not blue) and get it delivered right away and it will have been built in Oregon...

Gavin