Recuperation

[Rano]

Hello, I am not sure, but as it seems the Enertia does not support recuperation?

[Brammofan]

I think you mean "regeneration" and actually, it (Enertia Plus) does.

[Rano]

Hmm hope the physics are the same in german and english technology.
If regeneration means the reloading of the battery while braking, its recuperation.

Good news, thanks a lot! (I had a party last week with my friends, and they all took test rides, haha, at minus 2 degrees centigrade, and they missed the recuperation. Regeneration.)

Do you know, do I need to brake a bit for regeneration or is it started when I am in zero throttle position?

[oml]

@Arnmann: While the term recuperation is known, it hasnt succeded in giving that breaking technology its name.
Im deutschsprachigen bezeichnet man auch die Bremse so, im Englischen nur das physikalische Recuperationsprinzip afaik.

Furthermore: Rear brake only recuperation/regeneration on a lightweight vehicle like the Enertia is almost unimportant, as the wind drag is just a much higher consumer than then kinetic energy.

[Brammofan]

According to brammo.com:

Regenerative Braking: Under deceleration, energy is returned to the battery system to both extend driving range and provide familiar rider feedback.

[FrankH]

Regenerative Braking: Under deceleration, energy is returned to the battery system to both extend driving range and provide familiar rider feedback.

So actually it's not using the brakes that will regenerate some energy, but engine braking (letting go of the throttle and letting the engine slow the bike down).

[Gavin]

Yes...Engine Braking.

The Enertia didn't have any engine braking...it was a fairly unique ride...like riding a motorcycle with the clutch held in...I kinda liked it as it was super quiet and you felt you could coast forever at times...But no regen/recoup.

The Enertia Plus is different. It feels more like a "real" motorcycle in that when you let off the gas the bike starts slowing down. This process will add more energy back into the batteries. But it isn't a ton of energy. Long term motorcycle riders like it better and the bike has a more "grown up" feel because of the engine braking. I kinda miss the coasting...but I'm strange like that. Long down hills is where you will see the addition of energy...but again, it won't give you lots of extra miles, just a few.

In the future I would love to see a switch or button to turn on and off engine braking. Turn off when at suburban/rural riding (when coasting shines and the ultra quiet of coasting is most appreciated) and turn off for hilly riding and twisties when engine braking is the most use and the most fun.


Gavin

[protomech]

When / if a lower capacity 2013 Enertia is released, it should have the same motor / controller / cell type and support regen braking. The Enertia Classic does not support regen braking at all.

Haven't heard much about a lower capacity Empulse. They will have to rework it a bit, as the current 24s7p arrangement doesn't allow for easily dividing the capacity in half.

Btw, there's little incentive for Brammo to produce a lower capacity bike, at least initially. Brammo's cost is probably something like $15/cell in quantity. If an updated 24s3p 2.7 kWh Enertia was released, Brammo's bill of materials would be about $1400 less but they would have to charge $3000 less for the bike ($8000 vs $11000 MSRP).

Plus Zero has claimed with their 2012 bikes that 85% of customers purchased the ZF9 bike. This is a little different scenario (+50% range for bump from $11500 to $14000 vs > +100% range for bump from $8000 to $11000) .. but I bet most consumers will still buy the Enertia Plus / ZF 5.7 products.

Maybe a low-end bike price will get people in the door.

[Rano]

Thanks to all of you.

Thus, some kind of reloading the battery, not that much. I could not find any kind of engine break right now, but I will put a focus in the future to this feature.

In fact, I don´t think that in the really crasy morning traffic in vienna I will use regeneration that much

[Shinysideup]

In fact, I don´t think that in the really cracy morning traffic in vienna I will use regeneration that much

Au contraire... it's in stop-and-go traffic where regeneration is the most effective, with the occasional exception of long long mountainous descents (Alps).

[FrankH]

I could not find any kind of engine break right now, but I will put a focus in the future to this feature.

I think you will only notice it when it's not there anymore. It feels a lot like an ICE engine would feel when you let go of the throttle. I don't think driving in the city will be as cool when you have to hit the brakes constantly, instead of just letting the engine braking slow you down a bit.

[Shinysideup]

I kinda miss the coasting...but I'm strange like that. ...
In the future I would love to see a switch or button to turn on and off engine braking. Turn off when at suburban/rural riding (when coasting shines and the ultra quiet of coasting is most appreciated) and turn off for hilly riding and twisties when engine braking is the most use and the most fun.
Gavin

On the Empulse, if one holds the throttle just a bit toward "on", the regen diminishes to zero.
Or you could just hold the clutch in, though the manual asks the rider not to do that.

[kingcharles]

I wonder how much a licence would cost for the Vectrix throttle patent. Maybe Brammo could take it for the Enertia. The Empulse maybe not because of the clutch.
The Vectrix throttle is by far the superior method of applying regen/coasting and slow speed reverse.
Anybody who has owned a Vectrix will agree I am sure.

[Richard230]

I wonder how much a licence would cost for the Vectrix throttle patent. Maybe Brammo could take it for the Enertia. The Empulse maybe not because of the clutch.
The Vectrix throttle is by far the superior method of applying regen/coasting and slow speed reverse.
Anybody who has owned a Vectrix will agree I am sure.

 

I test rode a Vectrix when they first came out and I agree with you.   

[Brammofan]

Somewhere (too tired to search) is a quote by Brian in which he calls the Vectrix throttle design "elegant." He also says that regen on the back wheel presents its own set of dangers and challenges.