Dealer Anxiety

[implovator]

Anyone know if the dealers are going to try to charge any dealer fees? I'll pay tax and title, but that's it! As it is, I'm barely back in the Empulse buying game. If they try to stick me with a destination fee, assembly fee, or paperwork fee then I'm going to freak out. I had the worst feeling last night that they might try this...or even worse charge over MSRP. I was close to buying a Volt last year, but my local Chevy dealer was feature gouging. They didn't ask for anything over MSRP, but they required a full set of fees AND they were only selling the Volts fully-loaded. I kid you not, the only feature they didn't order on their Volts was the ash tray.

From my perspective as a DIY geek, I feel the Enertia buying experience was proof that there's really no value added to the sales process by a dealership when it comes to electric vehicles. Heck, I knew way more about the Voltec drivetrain than anyone at the dealership. Dudes didn't even realize that the Volt actually partially drives the wheels with the ICE under certain circumstances...and why that's actually a good thing. http://gm-volt.com/2010/10/12/chevrolet-volt-electric-drive-propulsion-system-unveiled/ I have a feeling that I'm going to know a good bit more about the Empulse than my local dealer too. It's just too difficult to train that many dealers, and in particular when those dealers are at best, feigning enthusiasm for electric vehicles. It might be different on the West Coast, but in the South there aren't that many good ol' boys that really believe in all these electric vehicles that Obama's shoving down our throats.

Anyhow...back on task...
Electric bikes are super easy to uncrate and get up and running. What's the most difficult thing that could be required with an Empulse? Put the mirrors on. Adjust the chain? Align the rear wheel? Maybe firmware upgrade...but I bet even that's easily tackled considering how good Brammo's software guys are. Maybe an argument can be made about liability when it comes to things like alignment and firmware...maybe. I think dealers are going to do wonders for customers who are on the fence. Test rides might be just what those customers need. Although, at such a steep price, I don't think many dealers are going to order Empulse's for the showroom floor. Sure they'll stock some Enertia+'s, but the Enertia+ is not going to capture the hearts of customers.

I just really hope this process goes smoothly. I've waited an awful long time and the dealer process is the last hurdle. Maybe I should give my dealer the benefit of the doubt considering I don't even know who and where my dealer is. I've just never had a good experience with any dealer, ever. The BMW dealer that I bought my last bike from was close to good because it was a used bike at a good price. But then they stuck me with fees that I had to go back and forth with them on. Past jobs in bicycle shops have really driven me to try and support my LBS and so I try to support motorcycle dealers too. It's just hard when they throw in their fees, hassle you over warranty work, then charge you full mark-up on tires even with their stupid-high mounting/balancing charges. BTW, I changed my first set of motorcycle tires this weekend. Piece of cake, even with spoons.

Maybe I just want another crate. I shipped a bike to a friend with my last one. You never know when you'll need a good motorcycle crate.

[FreepZ]

I agree that most of us on this forum will probably be more enthusiastic and knowledgeable than most of the dealers out there (although I suspect that some of the dealers are pretty enthusiastic too, like the folks at Hollywood Electrics).

BrammoFan got his Enertia delivered directly to him, but I think that he still had to pay a delivery fee. Somebody is going to have to pay FedEx (or whomever) to get the bike shipped to you, and I believe that Brammo's profit margins are already very low so they aren't going to want to pay that. (Perhaps that fee can be waived if you pick up the bike from the factory.)

For me, the less people between me and the manufacturer the better. I don't think that dealers provide much value to the purchase. Perhaps there is value in the ability to test the bike before you buy it (which according to the pre-order confirmation email is a mandatory requirement). How much am I willing to pay for a ride on a motorcycle? Maybe $5.

The dealer could provide other useful services, like maintenance, but I would expect to pay for that as needed, rather than up-front when I buy the bike.

I guess time will tell. One (small) advantage of being 595th in line is that I will be able to benefit from the experience of others who bought before me. (*sigh* gotta see positives where you can. )

[Brammofan]

BrammoFan got his Enertia delivered directly to him, but I think that he still had to pay a delivery fee.

Nope.
But, then again, I am the exception, not the norm.

I don't know the answers to your questions, Implovator - but they are fair questions.  I suspect that they may vary by dealer.  Perhaps we'll get some answers by the Brammo folks soon...perhaps not.  I remain, as always, forever hopeful.

[protomech]

I would hope the dealer fee would come out of the $18995 for the bike, and not be piled on top.

When I ordered the Zero, I ordered it through Hollywood Electrics but had it shipped direct from Zero. Shipping costs would have gone up $300 if I had it shipped first to HE for modifications.

[implovator]

Honestly, dealing with Chris Hertz at Best Buy for my Enertia was about the best experience that I could hope for. They received the crated bike, un-crated it, went over it, changed the plastics, and updated the firmware. Then they re-crated it and shipped it to my driveway. Piece of cake. Sure I paid for shipping, but that's a very reasonable cost in my opinion. Best Buy charged nothing for paperwork and prep, and they only charged a destination fee. Sure they put some work into the bike...but they paid themselves with profits from selling it at MSRP and not their invoice cost. And that price structure is between them and Brammo.

I guess if my dealer for the Empulse has a destination charge set from Brammo, then I'll pay that. But I'm going to punch a baby* if they tack on anything else.

* "Punch a baby" is purely a figure of speech to indicate frustration and I in not way intend to bring harm to any children.

[Richard230]

My multi-line motorcycle retail dealer charges for shipping, assembly, pre-inspection, DMV paperwork fees, and anything else they can get away with - plus the usual state sales taxes and DMV registration fee, which is based upon the value of the vehicle. Typically, this adds between $700 and $1000 (depending upon the model and its popularity) to the MSRP.  Reducing or eliminating these "fees" would be a matter of negotiation during the sale of the vehicle.  At least they don't charge for "undercoating".   

When I bought my Zero, the out-the-door price came to $16,000.

[craigq]

Anyone know if the dealers are going to try to charge any dealer fees?

Depends entirely upon the dealer. Most motorcycle dealers here apply the FRT/PDI and a "documentation" or "administration" fee. Most, except for one, who charges no FRT/PDI, no other fees, and this dealer applies manufacturer discounts before the others get around to it.

The dealer that I bought my Zero from charged the "Zero approved" FRT/PDI fees, but then they delivered the bike 4-hour round trip at no extra charge; I assume there's more than enough profit on the bike sale and FRT/PDI that they had no problem doing that.

[implovator]

I have some good news. My pre-order has been transferred to a more cooperative dealer. We reached a verbal agreement today, and I've sent in my refundable deposit. At number 527, I'm actually first in line at that dealership, and they're slated to get their first Empulse R shipment during the second week of January. Finally, some light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm glad that I finally found a dealer who understands the financial commitment that early adopters make. Just because I'm paying $19k+ for a motorcycle, it doesn't mean that I want to throw around cash like some kind of primadonna baller. I'm not an over-the-hill doctor buying an Bimota. I'm a pragmatic, environmentally-conscious nerd who doesn't want to be fleeced. Luckily this dealer realizes that these short term sacrifices in profit margins will pay dividends once the electric motorcycle segment explodes and they find themselves as one of the leading dealers of the segment's top brand...Brammo.

And to all those other dealers out there clinging to their age old ways of doing business...wake up before you find yourselves obsolete. These motorcycles require such little maintenance, that your last bastion of perceived value for customers (factory service and warranty work) is quickly eroding. You're losing your leverage. You might as well do right by your customers at the time of sale and hope that you come back to see you again when we upgrade...just as I'm upgrading form an Enertia to an Empulse R. And maybe we'll recommend you to our friends when they're considering a new electric motorcycle.

Come one, January!

[+progress-]

Congrats Impolvator!  I'm sure it felt great to put that deposit down!

Just because I'm paying $19k+ for a motorcycle, it doesn't mean that I want to throw around cash like some kind of primadonna baller. I'm not an over-the-hill doctor buying an Bimota. I'm a pragmatic, environmentally-conscious nerd who doesn't want to be fleeced.

I sure hope my dealer understands this!!!!
Unfortunately, the greater Seattle area dealer is still yet to be identified/established.  The regional business manager for Brammo says "We are working thru final stages of paperwork with the State of Washington and unfortunately with anything DMV or legally related everything takes longer than you would reasonably expect."  I understand because the Empulse pre-order family knows a thing or two about things taking longer than one would reasonably expect 

My number is 261 but it sounds like implovator will be getting his before I do (sucks for me )
When it finally happens, it will be my first dealer experience and I really want to post all about the wonderful experience I had and be able to recommend them to others.

[Richard230]

Brammo tried to sign up my BMW dealer, but they wouldn't bite.  I was told that Brammo couldn't get their demonstrator to work while it was at the shop and now they don't even want to talk about electric motorcycles.  (Although I do wonder what they plan to do when BMW finally starts selling their C-Evolution scooter?)  However, I think the real reason they don't want to sell electric vehicles is that they figure (rightly) that they won't bring in much after-sales business to the service department.  My guess is that the service department brings in at least half of the income for the shop - maybe more.  Typically BMW motorcycles require servicing every 6K miles, with major servicing happening at 12K miles.  This service can cost between $300 and $800 for their typical models and if you have something like the new K1600GT, you are going to get hit for around $1200 for a major (valve check) service. 

I believe that many established motorcycle shops are wondering how they will make a profit selling electric vehicles. It is going to require a change in their business plan and most motorcycle shops that I have dealt with are not too big on change.   

[travel4nutin]

Does anyone know if Brammo really has a West to East deployment plan for the Empulse?  I suspect location overrides reservation number.  From my observations this is what I've noticed.  Orders are for the most part equally distributed throughout the country.  Deliveries have been made on the West Coast with spare bikes in some cases.  Deposits have been taken in the Mid-West without test drives or demo models.  East Coast is still waiting on any info.  Does this sum it up accurately?

[ttxgpfan]

I thought there was a dealer in Miami that had a few bikes?

[implovator]

I've been talking with Euro Cycles in Tampa Bay, and it sounds like they'll be getting their shipment mid-January. It will have customer pre-order bikes and *I think* dealer bikes as well. I'm not sure if those dealer bikes are spoken for, but I they might be up for grabs. I know that Brammo and their dealers are working very hard to maintain the pre-order list. This is pure Internet conjecture, but I'm assuming that it will not be perfectly fair. The logistics are just too difficult for getting bikes to the East Coast. I think that Brammo is sending a few dealer bikes to their dealers and then a number of pre-order bikes base on how many deposits that dealer has collected. Now, chances are I'll be getting my bike later since I'm on the East coast, but my dealer is honoring the pre-order list so I will be getting the first bike from that dealership.

[Gavin]

Yeah...ramping up and honoring the exact pre order list across the US is likely a logistical nightmare...and probably impossible...

It could be worse...they could have gone the "only in California" route that many start up EVs did...

Or the "never deliver a single finished product" that too many start ups also fell into...

Still I think most pre orders will be fill in a timely manner, with a few dealer bikes going to some lucky buyers who jump ahead...of course that keeps the dealers happy...and happy dealers is not to be under estimated...brammo's future is closely tied to those dealers.

Now for the Plus pre-orders what I would like to see is faster boats

Gavin

[LGHTCYCL]

Hey,

Sorry to hear about the negative dealership experience. I did a test ride on an Enertia 2 years ago a few months before the Empulse announcement. I live in Washington state and Brammo at the time (hopefully now as well) were willing to haul the bike up for me to try out. I had a great riding experience. They delivered directly several bikes to my area to people who ordered them. Most likely they'll go to the traditional dealership model for WA state but I wouldn't mind getting my Empulse delivered directly to me like that. Imagine the Brammo delivery van stopping by your place and the delivery person drops off the bike and crate to you and gives you a chance to ask questions and the like then. Talk about service! A direct point of sales/delivery system would work for WA state and might be cheaper for the new owner and less headaches for Brammo. If plan A is a dealership system plan B should be a direct delivery system like that. If things don't work out anytime soon with a dealer I'd even be willing to go pick up the bike myself from Ashland!