Time weighs heavily..

[protomech]

And the Empulse is now listed as 470 lbs on Brammo's Empulse specifications - up from 360/390/420 lbs on the 6/8/10 kWh concepts, if you recall.

As recently as mid-April, when the production specifications were released the weight as listed as 440 lbs. And the combined weight (805 lbs GVWR, 365 lbs rider + passenger + cargo weight) still implies a 440 lb vehicle weight.

Assuming the GVWR stays the same, this means that rider + passenger + cargo weight drops to 335 lbs, just slightly below the Zero S ZF9's 340 lbs. Both of these bikes are pretty marginal when it comes to carrying a passenger IMO.

[machone]

Both of these bikes are pretty marginal when it comes to carrying a passenger IMO.

Sorry Protomech, you've lost me there, do you mean from a performance point of view or a legal/regulation limit?

[protomech]

General performance. The bike isn't going to explode into its component parts if you go 30 lbs over on the weight restriction, but the suspension may bottom out more frequently and the handling could get "interesting".

[Shinysideup]

At first I was a bit shocked at the 470 lb. wt. Then I checked my wonderfully handling TMax and its dry wt. is 478.

I think riding 2-up would possibly be a problem only if you live in the U.S. where 50% of the population is obese.

My wife and I can ride and carry 85 lbs of luggage.

[protomech]

250 combined for the two of you in riding gear is probably a good two standard deviations below the mean..

[Shinysideup]

250 combined for the two of you in riding gear is probably a good two standard deviations below the mean..

Totally agree. And that mean is dying from lifestyle diseases. (I work in medicine).

Or, we could just build the airplane seats wider. i.e. heavier shocks for heavier riders? But that probably wouldn't solve the GVWR limit.

[Brammofan]

It's a little bit like meeting someone online who shares a photo of herself with you and you go, "damn... she's fine."  Then, you meet her and she has mysteriously put on a few pounds between the time the photo was taken and the moment you meet her.  She's still "fine" looking, but she's a bit "meatier."  And, of course, the added pounds have no effect on the fact that she has a great personality.

[protomech]

Hopefully that's not personal experience talking, BF : )

Agree about the lifestyle disease. Doesn't change that both the ZF9 Zero and the Empulse are marginal for riding two-up with an average-sized couple .. compared to airline seats, which are fine until you're one or two standard deviations above mean (my uncle is 6'8", he dreads flying).

[Car Loss]

Gives new meaning to the term "hog."  There's a short bit from the early days of the internet... a Brit rider never understood Harleys, until he visited the US once.

Well, on topic: That cooling system the Empulse sprouted underneath can't weigh nothing.  That, and a transmission (esp. one that can handle max torque across half the rev range) isn't helium.  Maybe the next innovation in EVs isn't a better battery, but better insulation.  Then, voltages would go up, which would make heating issues and gear-shifting demand go down.  Which would make weight and servicing go down... which would make cost go down...

Carlos