Empulse RR vs. 600 cc supersports

[Shinysideup]

From Brammo's Facebook group page:

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2012/07/watch-the-brammo-empulse-rr-take-on-600cc-supersports/

OK, it's not a race, the other bikes were ridden by club racers, but still...

[EmpulseRider]

The gap between electric and gassers is really closing fast... soon we will see them hanging with liter bikes. The only limiting factor now is the batteries really.

[Deadly Silent Ninja]

For what they said in the comments, especially BrammoBrian, I think that battery is less of a factor now. Of course they are threading on the very limit, but it should be much better next year. The RR is already much better than it was last year, so we can assume that things will keep getting better fast.
The price tag is the one that I think needs to eventually go down. Less expensive bikes mean more riders, more data, better production and delivery deals, better distribution networks, etc.
If only one of the big ones would foot the bill just a bit more (hint, hint, Polaris...).

[Car Loss]

The gap between electric and gassers is really closing fast... soon we will see them hanging with liter bikes. The only limiting factor now is the batteries really.

Well, sure, if you have a sponsor.  Like computers before them, the issue is not what they can do, but what YOU can do with the one that you can actually afford.  Right now, no one has built the equivalent of the Apple IIC, though plenty of people have built their Apple I.  Meanwhile MotoCzysz has demonstrated to the world their Unix monster. 

Carlos

[ttxgpfan]

Oh, this just inspired a blog post.

[skuzzle]

Note that the 600 supersport lap record at PIR is nearly 10 seconds faster than the RR.  The RR lap time was about the same as the top SV650 club riders, although I think the lap record for SV type bikes is about 4 seconds faster.  The top speed on the straight for the RR is impressive, and it seems to come off the last corner pretty well.  I assume its losing time coming out of the corners, or perhaps in the corner.

[ttxgpfan]

I believe it is weight at this point.  130hp and 250-300(?)ft-lb of torque are numbers more akin to my father's old '91 Ford Escort GT 1.8L I-4 than anything any racing street bike has produced.  Granted they are 20hp down on a World SuperSport race bikes, but have at least, what, 5 to 10 times the torque at any given rpm.  Also remember, this was the first real shake down with the new motor.  I had wondered how the chassis was dealing with the new power.  Steve's new post gave me some insight.  But even comparing 600cc supersports versus superbikes vs 1000cc anything, is a bit of a moot point. On that weekend the single fastest 1000cc Superbike on it's fastest lap went 1 second faster than the single fastest 600cc Superbike on it's fastest lap.  I think the 1000s had the most consistent lap times as a group on the weekend, but other than that the lap times were really spread out.  On a race track it has so much more to do with the track, the state of tune of the bike, and the rider that I am finding comparing electrics to any particular displacement bike a hollow argument.  But that goes for electrics to each other as well.  The only two that seem to be anywhere near comparison are the Lightning and the MotoCzysz.

And, in the Empulse's defense, I saw the 650 lap times from the weekend ( http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=2303854 ).  The fastest lap was a 1:16.992, the next fastest were 2 1:18s and one 1:19.  Everyone else's fastest lap was over 1:20.  Atlas ran 1:17s half of the race.  But, his average speed of 87.5mph, if he had been able to maintain it, would have put him 4th in the Ultra Lightweight Superbike race (basically SV650 superbikes).  As far comparing it to the all time fastest 650 laps, you can't.  This was the first electric race at PIR, and track conditions make such a difference it's not a fair comparison, electrics or not. 

Just my opinion, anyway.

[AJ Nin]

Maybe in the future, but at this time the Empulse cannot be compared to any super sport bike in terms of performance.  The bike to compare it to on the track is the Ninja 250r, although the Ninjette, being lighter, should be faster. Top speed is about the same. The Ninja will be faster in the corners as the heavier Empulse has to brake sooner. The acceleration off the line is decent for the Empulse though. In spite of its impressive Streetfighter looks and Superbike price, the Empulse is still an entry-level bike in terms of performance when compared to gas bikes.   

[protomech]

"at this time the Empulse cannot be compared to any super sport bike in terms of performance.  The bike to compare it to on the track is the Ninja 250r"

The Empulse R hasn't shipped yet, so it's impossible to say yet. Super sport bikes are out of the question, but I suspect it will perform somewhere between a 500 and 650 on the track. Its weight gain over the concept specifications will certainly hurt.

The Empulse RR (which is what the OP was discussing) is in an entirely different league of performance. I believe it will turn in a 600cc-type laptime at Laguna Seca TTXGP - probably a few seconds behind Mission's time from last year.

Time will tell.

[ttxgpfan]

Yes, I was referring to the Empulse RR.  The race bike.  The fastest 250 Ninja race prepped lap time was a  1:31, compared to Steve's 1:17. 

IMO, the stock Empulse R ,with it's really well spec'd suspension (Triumph's Daytona 675R knocked out the Ducati 848 EVO by the very same method), will make short work of a stock Ninja 250.  The regular Empulse will have a harder time.  Ninja 250s are fast because they are so light.  But because of that, they are all about corner speed.  If you can disrupt their corner speed, the torque of the Empulse walk the Ninja.