Author Topic: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?  (Read 1267 times)

Brammofan

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MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« on: January 22, 2013, 09:57:45 AM »
Just saw this on the the PNW (Pacific Northwest Riders) forum:

Quote
Yesterday while out paying my storage bill near the airport here in Medford I was stopped at the light getting back on highway 62, when I heard the sound of a siren coming up behind me. Then it stopped. I looked around and the only thing I saw was an electric motorcycle.

I figured it must have been the local motorcycle magazine (MotoUSA) guys out testing the thing. When it was the riders turn to go, he took off like his ass was on fire. That thing was pretty cool.

I hope we see a rider review in MotoUSA soon.  If you recall, Steve Atlas wrote a series of at least 5 articles for that publication.
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Vibetrippin

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2013, 01:03:30 PM »
so much for silent!

Gavin

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2013, 01:38:17 PM »
Yeah...I've been thinking about the noise requirement

A bike like the Plus could use it, though I still think it is the wrong way to move forward (make the world quieter and people can actually hear even near silent bikes, vs adding more noise to the background din that nobody pays attention to and will just increase the amount of people wearing iPods to drowned it out. Heck, the deaf people might be slightly safer, but everyone else will likely have increased risk...I quieter world vs a noisier world...which do you think would be safer for pedestrians?)


But the Empulse shouldn't need it no matter what. Yes, it is silent at rest, but once moving it quickly gains a bit of noise...at least as much as any federal noise requirement would be.

Gavin


ttxgpfan

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2013, 08:31:49 PM »
Atlas worked for MotoUSA when Brammo hired him to ride the Empulse.  Although, I don't think he writes for them any more, although they don't have a list of editors.  Any chance it was just a happy new owner?

Shinysideup

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 02:59:36 PM »
Yeah...I've been thinking about the noise requirement

A bike like the Plus could use it, though I still think it is the wrong way to move forward (make the world quieter and people can actually hear even near silent bikes, vs adding more noise to the background din that nobody pays attention to and will just increase the amount of people wearing iPods to drowned it out. Heck, the deaf people might be slightly safer, but everyone else will likely have increased risk...I quieter world vs a noisier world...which do you think would be safer for pedestrians?)


But the Empulse shouldn't need it no matter what. Yes, it is silent at rest, but once moving it quickly gains a bit of noise...at least as much as any federal noise requirement would be.

Gavin

I couldn't agree more. The cities have become like a restaurant which starts out where you can talk to your friends, but as it fills up (and alcohol flows!), everyone starts talking louder and louder to be heard. That's when i leave!

The phenomenon also functions in the realm of visibility, where now moto riders are worried about conspicuity and buy dayglow vests, reflective tape, running lights, extra brake lights etc., mainly to get noticed by drivers in sealed cars listening to loud music, chatting on phones, and texting.

implovator

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 08:29:31 PM »
The phenomenon also functions in the realm of visibility, where now moto riders are worried about conspicuity and buy dayglow vests, reflective tape, running lights, extra brake lights etc., mainly to get noticed by drivers in sealed cars listening to loud music, chatting on phones, and texting.

The following might risk a really long thread hijack, but I have to chime in. I'm sorry if I offend anyone. I'm not looking for an argument, since this issue ranks right up there with religion, gun control, and abortion. I just wanted to post this really long rant because sometimes I think I'm the only person in the world who thinks like this. Maybe I'm just looking for a little validation. Regardless...<rant>

I REALLY dislike:
  • Extra Running Lights
  • Modulating Headlights (brights/low)
  • Running Brights during the day
  • Air Horns
  • Flashing Brake Lights
  • Excessive reflectivity
  • And American drivers that don't realize their European car has a rear fog light(s).

I think the desire for conspicuity really became popular after the Hurt Report (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurt_Report) since it was one of the main findings. Logically, people starting linking SMIDSY's as the main cause of accidents. And quite frankly, I think people champion this conclusion as a way of resolving the inner conflict that their decision to ride a motorcycle is reckless and somewhat irresponsible. This reasoning is so pervasive that it's entered into traditional parlance to the point that anyone who's ever had anything to do with motorcycling is quick to say, "I had to [blah blah blah]. I mean, it's not me I have to worry about. It's the other guy that's going to kill me."

Personally, I think this attitude is destructive and a failure to accept responsibility. I've always lived by the following: If I am involved in an accident on my motorcycle, then it is ALWAYS my fault.

I've been in two accidents.
  • Pushed the front on a set of old race DOT takeoffs while being a hooligan on mountain roads. My fault on many many levels.
  • While first in line waiting at an intersection, two cars collided and one ran into me and my buddy. My fault. How? You should always try to avoid being the first in line at an intersection...that's where most of the accidents are.

My line of reasoning is so absolute, that if a frozen turkey fell from the sky and landed on me, then I'd still say it's my fault for riding my motorcycle that day. This may all sound extreme, but it is exactly the attitude needed to maintain healthy (albeit extreme) defensive riding...the kind that will save your life. Mild defensive riding will usually help you to avoid most accidents...but this truly paranoid state of mind is the only thing that will help when you're faced with the absolute worst drivers. I was on my motorcycle once, going down a four lane divided road. It was a really tight neighborhood so the cross streets had really horrible visibility. Nearly a half a block in front of me, some guy in a donk blew straight through his stop sign and right across all four lanes going about 45 mph. That would have been one horrible accident if I was in his path. And no, I wasn't riding extra cautious because of the low visibility. But if I was then I could have reacted even if I was in his path

Why do I even care?

As a motorcyclist, I'm just worried that the desire for conspicuity may lower the vigilance of riders. I think the only way to avoid a SMIDSY is to try really hard to make sure you're no where near anyone. Don't linger. Have an escape plan. Anticipate the most ridiculous driver responses always. I know MSF pushes these ideas and the whole attitude, but I just see too many new riders shrugging their shoulders like they've accepted that riding a motorcycle is just rolling the dice. We've had a lot of new rider accidents in my office over the past three years. Maybe they're embarrassed and so they find comfort in the proverbial, "There's only two types of riders. Those that have been down and those who will go down."

As a driver, I dislike excessive conspicuity because it disrupts scanning patterns. Peripheral vision is crucial for tracking multiple objects. Our center vision is dominated by the fovea which is designed/evolved for high detail perception. Engaging the fovea is slow, whereas peripheral perception is fast. If my peripheral vision is continually triggered by a flashing tail light, I'm going to disrupt my scanning pattern and engage the fovea to discern the threat. I do that too many times and BAM accident. To counteract this, my brain tells me to ignore that threat. It's just like the boy who cries wolf. Now when the motorcyclist in the left lane really gets on his brakes hard because of a deer on the Interstate, I might not respond to it as quickly. BAM accident.

Fast scanning with peripheral vision relies on pattern recognition. Think about playing Call of Duty. The good players sweep very quickly and look for that one tiny artifact that doesn't fit. They aim and shoot at it, often before they've even successfully ID'd it.

There's a reason why auto/moto manufacturers are regulated strictly when it comes to lighting. Once we drivers understand these patterns, our brains can scan and find the things that don't fit more effectively. Take the guy running his Mercedes rear fog lights because he thinks he's running his front fog lights. If I'm not mistaken, they actually light up both brakes lights on Mercedes. Of course the third brake light doesn't come on. Now my brain has to recognize that side lights minus third light is not a braking situation. Add to that the fact that it's blinding. Another example. Anyone ever been freaked out when they suddenly notice a truck in front of them being towed backwards? We're trained to shit our pants when we see oncoming headlights in front of us. And another. Anyone remember when the third brake light just started showing up as an aftermarket accessory. They freaked me out for a while. Come to think of it, my Dad called them idiot lights. Maybe that was the seed of these crazy ideas of mine.

So right about now in the thread people may chime in and say, "I've got to look out for myself. As long as they see me, that's all that matters." Or, "Hey, if I pissed someone off, then my headlight modulator did its trick. I was noticed." Maybe I'm a different kind of thinker here, but that just sounds like simple selfishness to me. Ride defensive and ride predictable. It's safer for you and for others.
</rant>

I'm really sorry about that. I hope you didn't read the whole thing. :-[ I assure you, this was not directed at anyone here or on any other forum. It's just my opinion and is in no way meant to be destructively critical of anyone else. I'm a typical INTJ, but I won't let my judgemental leanings prevent me from buying anyone on the forum beers if we show up to a group ride and you're wearing...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 10:01:35 PM by implovator »

Brammofan

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 09:18:38 PM »
Implovator, could you expand on this a bit?

;)
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implovator

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 09:54:01 PM »
Implovator, could you expand on this a bit?

;)

And that, friends, is how a thread is moderated without bringing out the ban stick. That was a good laugh.

But seriously though. When people get a European car, they should get special training. I learned the hard way. I was the passenger in a Renault while working a few weeks in France. My colleague, the driver, had every Frenchy on the road flashing us, cursing, and damned near running us off the road. It took him a week to figure it out. I started taking the train in shame.

Deadly Silent Ninja

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2013, 11:41:15 PM »
I'm a typical INTJ, but I won't let my judgemental leanings prevent me from buying anyone on the forum beers if we show up to a group ride and you're wearing...
If I meet anyone wearing something like that, I will definitely buy him/her a beer just for the bravery factor. You really must be courageous to walk out of the house wearing that!  ;D
I do agree with you that there's a limit. I'd rather trust my own ability to prevent accidents than to trust other people's sense of responsibility. Just don't do anything stupid and expect everyone else to do something stupid and you will be much safer.

Shinysideup

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2013, 12:39:19 AM »
As a rider who has yellow front running LED's on all his bikes as well as extra flashing brake lights and some reflective tape on my bright yellow-green helmet, I can say I totally agree with you that I accept that if I have an accident, the asphalt was my fault. I am 100% responsible for 100% of what goes on around me 100% of the time. Unless I have lapses.

Before my collision, I used to ride like nobody can see me. Now I ride like everyone can see me and they're out to kill me. This is not "defensive" driving... this is "scared shitless" driving.

I ride in a congested, complex. and very busy city (San Francisco) every single work day on my job, all day long. I have been rear ended twice. I want to be seen, especially when stopping.

Without being argumentative, I simply don't understand how wanting to be conspicuous prevents me from driving with a proper degree of paranoia, vigilance, peripheral scanning, long range scanning,  traffic pattern recognition, escape planning etc. How does being seen prevent me from seeing? Why must it lull me into a sense that everything will be OK because my bike is well-lit and I wear ATGATT?

You see, I think the answer to safety is e) all of the above.

BTW, in my experience, flashing brake lights cause tailgaters to back off and running lights give depth perception to oncoming vehicles who appear not as likely to turn in front of me now, though of course, I ALWAYS am ready for them to! I never think my lights will save me, but I do think they tip the odds a bit in my favor.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming... (sorry to thread jack the threadjack!)

And thanks for making me look up an Aussie acronym.  And where can I buy that LED jacket??? :P
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:40:19 AM by Shinysideup »

860

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2013, 02:06:08 AM »
"Fast scanning with peripheral vision relies on pattern recognition."


I have a theory that this is exactly why lots of car drivers literally don't see motorcycles.  They are fast scanning to match the pattern of large boxes with windshields/windows.  Anything that doesn't fit that pattern recognition simply doesn't register at all.  Obviously this isn't every single person seeing every single motorcycle, but I'm convinced it happens.

I also ride with the theory that everyone is actively trying to kill me.  But that might just be because I know all my crazy ex-girlfriends all have both means and motive...     ;D

implovator

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2013, 10:52:06 AM »
I watched this video some time ago. It has some really good explanations of why drivers don't see motorcycles.


Richard230

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2013, 10:58:57 AM »
About 15 years ago, while I was visiting my daughter in Ballard, WA, just north of Seattle, I stopped in at a motorcycle store and saw a yellow reflective belt like the police wear, with a belt around the waist and another loop going over the shoulder and back down to the belt (I think it is called a "Sam Browne" belt).  But this one had rows of battery-powered small flashing yellow lights, in addition to the reflective strips.  I almost bought it just so I could really let other drivers know that I had arrived in their vicinity. Instead, I went for the non-illuminated version and saved money for many years by not buying batteries every couple of weeks.   ::)

And I already know why other drivers don't see me while I am riding my motorcycle - It is just too much trouble to look in my direction and even more trouble to actually see what they are looking at.   ::)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 11:02:38 AM by Richard230 »
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Shinysideup

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Re: MotorcycleUSA testing the Empulse?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2013, 12:06:13 PM »
Thanks for the good video.

A variation of the SIAM I use when there's not time nor space to weave is to quickly shake the handlebars back and forth. This helps break me out of the background by shaking the headlight: kind of a poor man's modulator.

I believe running lights help me from be camouflaged, as in here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10852133@N02/8398566823/#in/set-72157632567075439/

Sometimes, especially with eager pedestrians in the middle of a block, I emphatically turn my head back and forth as in, "Oh no you don't!". My intention, in addition to non-verbal communication, is for the bright green helmet to me moving, breaking out of the background. Of course, I'm prepared for them to act on, "Oh yes I am jumping out in front of you."