Brammo Empulse R no throttle response at times...

[m640x]

Hello all, glad to see the forum has picked up a bit.  It was fairly dormant for a number of years.  I wanted to say hello and also highlight a problem I started having with this bike.

I own a 2013 R, approx. 4,600 miles, runs and rides and I absolutely love it.  I'm an EV enthusiast, (have owned 6) and am currently on my second full size vehicle conversion. I have done very little to this bike but I know I will have to in the future when the batteries start to degrade or other components start to fail.

Here's the problem that started last summer.  I do the normal start procedure.  Key on, handlebar switch on, kickstand up, then I press the start button and I hear a click and the green lights on top of the gauge cluster are scrolling as normal.  Whether in gear or neutral, I roll the throttle back and ........ nothing happens, complete silence.  It may be 2 seconds and other times I've waited hours and days before the motor will finally engage as normal.  I don't leave the bike on, I just try it every so often.  Has anyone seen or experienced this condition?

With that said, thank you in advance for any info.

[patrick]

Hi, regarding the RTC (Real Time Clock) may be the internal battery that had lost it's power, like old computers had. there is already some talk about that somewere here in the forum.
the batteries... oh the batteries, they are the real problem. I've measure the capacity of all 252 units of mine, and some of them were out of capacity, with zero Amps, almost 64 units with less than 4000mA/h, 144 units less than 6000mA/h and in the end the remaning ones (40 units or so) less than 7000mA/h.

Currently, I'm buying more from aliexpress and rebuilding all 7 batteries. but not all the 252 units, for now only 52. Whitout the new ones I had less than 4kW/h to use on the bike, and one of the 7 batteries were preaty bad, while all the others were at 50%, the bad one was already at 0%, thats why I was having the B40. Whit the new ones I'm reaching 6kW/h.

[m640x]

I found info on how to fix the real time clock issue last year, I may or may not tackle that one.  The clock being off doesn't really bother me.

[Henk1313]

Currently, I'm buying more from aliexpress and rebuilding all 7 batteries. but not all the 252 units, for now only 52. Whitout the new ones I had less than 4kW/h to use on the bike, and one of the 7 batteries were preaty bad, while all the others were at 50%, the bad one was already at 0%, thats why I was having the B40. Whit the new ones I'm reaching 6kW/h.

Hi patrick, Why are you buying new cells from aliexpress? is'nt it better to swap out all battery modules for better ones ?

[patrick]

Currently, I'm buying more from aliexpress and rebuilding all 7 batteries. but not all the 252 units, for now only 52. Whitout the new ones I had less than 4kW/h to use on the bike, and one of the 7 batteries were preaty bad, while all the others were at 50%, the bad one was already at 0%, thats why I was having the B40. Whit the new ones I'm reaching 6kW/h.

Hi patrick, Why are you buying new cells from aliexpress? is'nt it better to swap out all battery modules for better ones ?

The modules that you may find online to buy, may have the same problem as yours right now, depleated batteries. my best solution is replace some of the bad ones. of course you need to know witch ones are KO, for that you must have a capacity mesurement device,

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006144940052.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller.5.1bceInqOInqO5U&gps-id=pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40000.327270.0&scm_id=1007.40000.327270.0&scm-url=1007.40000.327270.0&pvid=866bc15e-3df1-4725-a0a9-04f5cb6b35c1&_t=gps-id:pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40000.327270.0,pvid:866bc15e-3df1-4725-a0a9-04f5cb6b35c1,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238109%231935&utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A

[Henk1313]

Currently, I'm buying more from aliexpress and rebuilding all 7 batteries. but not all the 252 units, for now only 52. Whitout the new ones I had less than 4kW/h to use on the bike, and one of the 7 batteries were preaty bad, while all the others were at 50%, the bad one was already at 0%, thats why I was having the B40. Whit the new ones I'm reaching 6kW/h.

Hi patrick, Why are you buying new cells from aliexpress? is'nt it better to swap out all battery modules for better ones ?

Hi Patrick, I'm not talking about getting the same brammo modules. that are filled with the same old batteries.
my plan is to swap out the bikes modules and replace them with 2.88kwh 4S LG Chem modules from a volvo XC40
so in total 7 modules with a capacity of 20Kwh.

I have to take out the pcb's from the current modules and attach them to the LG ones. Make a waterproof case and fit them in the bike. thats all pretty doable for me.

that would give me a theoretical range of 400km average riding.
I am also going to swap the charger out for a type 2 or newer 9kw charger so I can charge with the newer charging stations. that to keep the charging time the same as the 2.5 hours now.

[patrick]

First pack of batteries that I've order from aliexpress, were 4 units of 95Amp hour, but they were a little big to fit inside the modules, so I just though of having the little ones replaced.

It's "doable", check this out if you haven't already did:
this video has the same batteries as I bought, but I didn't wanted to "destroy" the battery case

https://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=4321.0

[Henk1313]

Hi Patrick

So you wanted to replace them with prismatic cells, thats also a good option. Way better than those little pouches.

I am going to build a whole new battery pack, will try to make a drawing of it (it's in the attachments)
or here is the drive link to the image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bIThcw3qWkxuPMj295Wg-BoLUXnitr9m/view?usp=sharing

so on the side it's going to be wider than the normal batteries. and i am going to make a new enclosure for it so the new modules are also waterproofed and encased for a accident (i don't want to set everyone on fire when I crash)

[patrick]

Hi Patrick

So you wanted to replace them with prismatic cells, thats also a good option. Way better than those little pouches.

I am going to build a whole new battery pack, will try to make a drawing of it (it's in the attachments)
or here is the drive link to the image
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bIThcw3qWkxuPMj295Wg-BoLUXnitr9m/view?usp=sharing

so on the side it's going to be wider than the normal batteries. and i am going to make a new enclosure for it so the new modules are also waterproofed and encased for a accident (i don't want to set everyone on fire when I crash)

Hi Henk, it's a good thinking to build 2 packages, one on the top and one on the bottom. but be carefull because it will be heavy, like the ones from Victory, they also built 2 batteries. imagine the Weight of one module x 4. if possible I would make the bottom one in a way that the BMS boards to be on top, instead of being on the botton, if there is a water or battery spill, this way the BMS would be more safe than in the bottom.

Having a lot of batteries in parallel is better than only one in series, because if one fails, all fail and with a lot in parallel, if one fails, the others will compensate.
But still I think it would be better to have one or two in parallel, this way is a lot faster to check witch one is getting damaged. It took me 3 months to measure all 252 cell and then I had to check each temperature sensor on wich position on the BMS bellonged, because I mixed them all up. this was my second nightmare.

On the picture is the temperature measured on each BMS position, I measured 784 times in order to check on witch position the temperature sensor should be placed, because between temperature sensors on the same BMS can't be more than if I'm not mistaken 2 degree Celsius and between all seven modules I think it's 5 degrees

[Henk1313]

Damn Patrick,

that's a lot of measuring voltages.

I'm going to be using LG Chem (volvo) modules. 4S3P for each module. I am planning to reuse the CMU's from the old modules.
The total pack would weight about 91KG, so about 20kg more than the original pack. (one module is 13KG)

The new batteries will be in a waterproof enclosure.

Thanks for the input you gave me about the temperature censors. that's pretty good info to know.

[Zombo]

Hello,

does anyone happen to have the latest firmware for the original batteries?

I have to replace two blocks and there is a different firmware on each one.

Many thanks
Zombo

[EV promise]

Hello Zombo, please find attached the information you requested. Hope this helps. If you need help loading it I can advise as I have done this to modules.
I'm really pleased the site is back up and running. Many thanks to all involved.