Water Issues...

[frodus]

You wouldn't think a bike designed in Oregon would have water issues    I wonder if this should become a standard FAQ item.  My old SV650 use to lose one cylinder in hard rain.  Wasn't an issue until the cylinder would selectively come back, usually in the middle of a turn.
I think I will be getting my Empulse in the next month.  I might have to waterproof it as I live in Portland, Oregon.  I haven't heard any water issues from Frodus who lives nearby.

Ahh, the infamous SV650 325cc problem

I haven't done much Rain riding yet... It's garage kept and I'm still beginning.... so limited wet riding.

Would be fairly easy to fix with waterproof connectors. Let me take a look and see. I know a lot of the other connectors on the bike are sealed.

[kingcharles]

I guess one of the 2014 model improvements will be water proofing...

If Brammo needs a tester, I will be more than happy to ride a white Empulse to work every rainy day 

[flar]

Isn't "gaffer tape" another term for duct tape"?

Very different, but actually they are related.  Gaffers tape has a cloth construction and an easily removed adhesive that leaves no marks, designed for use in theater both for marking spots or for protecting cables from foot traffic.

It's more like heavy duty masking tape that sticks better but still comes off cleanly and easily when you pull it away.

[BrammoBrian]

I guess one of the 2014 model improvements will be water proofing...

If Brammo needs a tester, I will be more than happy to ride a white Empulse to work every rainy day 

This would be even more ironic if you all knew how much wet weather testing was done to ensure something like this would not happen.  Clearly it was an oversight and will be fixed for the 2014 model as you suggest.  Rest assured, however, that the bike is "water-proof" and we have done many, many hours of riding in torrential conditions and even had the bike accidentally dropped in about 6" of standing water mud puddle during 3rd party durability testing where it was ridden and charged in the rain as well.

Here are some photos from the durability testing.  Note the 100lbs + of data logging equipment.  We had more problems with the waterproofing of this equipment than the bike! 





And here's one of Andrew on one of our engineering test bikes.  Note we fit them with rain tires since they were getting ridden so often in wet weather during the winter.



No excuses here.  Just pointing out that a lot of testing has gone into the bikes and this issue, unfortunately, did not show up (probably because the harness routing was "insignificantly"  different on the test bikes). Most of the connectors on the harness are fully sealed.  This one was thought to be protected well enough to avoid a problem (assumed validated in testing).  Goes to show the challenges of bringing new vehicles to market and thank you all for your patience with us!   Please know that we would never knowingly cut corners or deliver a sub-standard experience to our customers.

Now... off to get some dielectric grease and gaff tape for my personal bike...

[Gavin]

Thanks Brian for the reply...

I might wait a bit before sealing this part as we don't get rain til July.

Gavin

[Shinysideup]

Thanks Brian. I've always appreciated Brammo's (and YOUR) openness and responsiveness. I figure events like these go with being an early adopter and am glad to contribute experience to the collective Brammo Wonder Bike knowledge base.

BTW, how hard would it be for me to "uninstall" Andrew's side cases with their frames so I can test them on my bike, if you want to find out how they work on steep San Francisco streets? Heck, I'll even spray water on them, if you want me to!

[00049 (AKA SopFu)]

To be fair, I have had less problems with the Empulse during the first 1,000 miles than I had with my 1098. I'm glad this was an easy fix (assuming it works in the next rain storm...which should be tomorrow)!

[kingcharles]

All new EV bikes I read about have had water issues. I also had to do some mods on my Vectrix in 2009 to solve the motor controller from getting wet. Since then my Vectrix has become the most reliable bike I have ever owned.

I never meant to say Brammo did not do a proper job testing. It is just a fact that with new technology there will always be some bugs in the first releases. But being so open about your developments with (potential) customers is really refreshing. Many thanks for that!

[00049 (AKA SopFu)]

The saga continues. My bike would not turn off again on Monday when I got home after riding in the rain. I disassembled the cowl, and even unplugged the suspect connector. It still would not turn off. I thought the water pump was cycling while I was flipping switches or the key (at least twice it turned on or off exactly when I did something). Adam had me send him some log files and said he would look into it. I have had the bike lose power on me a time or two while moving, but never while raining. Otherwise the bike always seemed to be working fine.

I reassembled the cowl, re-taping the suspect connector, and road it to work today. It was dry on the way in, but then we had torrential downpours for a lot of the afternoon, and was raining as hard as ever for my ride home. But the bike turned off when I got there for the first time after riding in real rain! The only weird thing about the ride is I was getting the "chugging" that normally only happens when I am at very low SOC when the display said I had 35%. It's only charging at 9 amps instead of the 11 that I normally get at home, too.

My dealer contacted me today and wanted to know when they could come down to do the firmware upgrade and swap out the VCU. Brammo must have noticed something in my log files. Maybe my water issue is a one-off problem, or maybe there is something else going on unrelated to my water problem. I guess we'll see.

[00049 (AKA SopFu)]

I just posted this in the firmware thread, but in case anyone comes across this in a search I am following up here.

During the firmware update the dealer re-taped the harness mentioned above with "amalgamating" tape, which went on a lot tighter and seems to be more water repellant than the gaffer tape. My guess is that it is more specialized and more difficult to find, though.

But, they also taped one of the two long many-pinned connectors above the radiator. I forgot to snap a pic, but if someone is desperate I can disassemble the front fairing to snap one. My guess is that this is the suspect part due to some of the other weirdness that was going on. My VCU was also replaced at the same time, so I doubt we'll ever know what the real culprit was if the problem is fixed. The forcaste here is dry for the next few days, but you can bet I'll be reporting once I ride in the rain again.

[Shinysideup]

Thanks - I love learning about new tools.

My research shows that "amalgamating tape" is a British term. In the U.S., it's sold as "self-fusing tape" and comes in both rubber and silicone varieties.

I trust the 3M brand with this sort of thing and found the rubber version at a reasonable price here:

http://www.amazon.com/3M-2155-Rubber-Splicing-Tape/dp/B001CGVEXS/ref=cm_sw_em_r_asp_W-jSF.02D1TMF_tt

[+progress-]

I was experiencing a slight throttle pulse and in June/July of 2015 my VCU was replaced.  A few months later some error messages started showing up on my screen and and the throttle pulse returned.  After several months in the shop, 2 battery modules were replaced because of water ingress.  The day after the bike was returned to me an error message showed up on the screen and the throttle pulse returned.  After another month or so the recommended fix is replacing the VCU...... again.

I live in Seattle, the Empulse is my only vehicle, I ride in the rain whenever it rains.  Depending on the year, it can rain often.

Having my batteries replaced under warranty is still a little bit of a hassle but at least it does not cost me.
The VCU is about $2,000 dollars for the part which I feel should be covered under warranty but I am still working that out with Polaris.

It is beginning to feel like riding in the rain is going to get very expensive or render my bike useless when I no longer have warranties to fall back on.
Does anyone really feel comfortable riding their Empulse in the Rain?

Are there any members who ride in the rain often and have had NO issues?

[Shinysideup]

I ride in the rain in San Francisco, but there's nowhere near as much rain here as Seattle.

I've had three issues:

1) Water ingress into the white multi-pin connector behind the headlight. Solved with drying with compressed air, filling the whole thing with dielectric grease and wrapping it in gaffer's tape.

2) A throttle that became unresponsive and then would suddenly lurch forward. Solved by opening the assembly, blowing it out with compressed air, spraying it with WD-40, and putting electrical tape over the seam of the plastic throttle housing after reassembly.

3) Error message on dash that meant water ingress into a battery case, right after purchase of the #3 machine. Solved by Brammo picking up the bike in SF, trucking it to the factory and replacing all batteries with ones in re-designed cases, trucking it back to me with a 5-day turnaround.

[00049 (AKA SopFu)]

+progress-, I'm surprised you were able to get new battery modules. I've been waiting on one for 3 months.

I haven't had any water issues since the start of this thread. Then again, I've had other issues where the cause hasn't been diagnosed. I ride mine in all weather. You should just ride it.