Some areas where the Plus might be a better option for some.

[Gavin]

Ok...make no mistake...the Empulse is in almost every way a much better motorcycle than the Plus. Faster, 2-up riding, fun, above highway speed driving, water cooled, top of the line components. With shifting and leaning, it is a true motorcycle vs a commuter bike.

But there are a couple of areas where the Enertia may still be a better match for some riders (and perhaps one area where the Empulse could steal from the Enertia).

1) of course, Ease of Riding. Any beginner can jump on the Enertia and go. It is the easiest bike I've every ridden. And great for the city. Light and nimble. The Empluse is great in the city too, but it is hard to beat the Plus as it is the perfect city bike.

2) Loading into the bed of your pickup for a trip. The Enertia was very easy to load into my small pickup for a trip to Vegas or White Sands etc etc....I haven't tried the Empulse yet...I might not ever try. Those extra 100 + pounds gives me great pause. I am currently thinking about getting a motorcycle trailer...but if all you have is a pickup, well the Enertia is better for that.

3) This is maybe the most important "currently"...The CORD. When Level 2 charging takes off and is all over, this issue is moot. But as of right now there is little level 2 charging in New Mexico. I love my Brammo charger for home. Fast, quiet. But it is big and bulky and EXPENSIVE.
Case in point:
A) I use to sometimes charge at work with the Enertia. The plug was under the locked seat so the cord would be hard to steal, and if stolen it is a 10 dollar part to replace. I never will charge the Empluse at work (until they have level 2 chargers in the garage) as it would be very easy for anybody to walk up to my charging bike and take my nice 600 dollar charger. Luckily, with short commute, I don't need to charge at work. Still I did have that option with the Plus and don't with the Empulse.
B) Trip to Madrid. I love the ride out on the Turquoise Trail. But the ride to Madrid and back is about 80 miles and much of that at 60mph or more. So I will need to charge. Now Madrid has no level 2 charging--and might not for a number of years. So with the Plus I would use an outlet outside the Mine Shaft Tavern, go inside and have a buffalo burger and chat with the crazy locals (and they are very crazy there), wait a bit and get enough charge to head on home. But the outlet is outside and the Tavern has no outside seating...So again, I fear charging with my nice Brammo cord as it is easy to steal and quite valuable. I plan to hit Madrid this weekend but have to find a new place to charge and eat...I can only hope the people there are just as crazy as at the Tavern.

So, until Level 2 is readily available, I wonder if Brammo shouldn't add a level 1 charger to the Empulse?

Still I think most people in the States would get the Empulse over the Enertia...and I don't think this issue will be as important in say 5 years. But would it be possible to add a standard Enertia charge port to an Empulse? And would anybody buy that as a option? Here in New Mexico, I would.

Gavin

[protomech]

It doesn't need an extra L1 charger, it just needs an IEC mains input for 120 V .. and perhaps a way to limit it to 6-8 A for dodgy circuits.

I remember this discussion back mid last year and I recall BrammoBrian commenting something to the effect of J1772 is simply a better design, more future-proof, safer, can charge in the rain, etc. All true statements, but you're very correct that J1772 to L1 is a sub-standard solution for the reasons you mention (plus the cable is huge).

I don't think the risk of theft is large, particularly in visible, well-trafficked areas. But it's something on my mind.

Eventually we'll have J1772 AC everywhere and this won't be an issue .. in some areas this may already be true. Northern AL won't be there for some time..

[Gavin]

On the upside...I can walk up to people and tell them my Cable is bigger than yours...



Gavin

[frodus]

Then don't make it easy to steal!

I have a Xena Brake Disk lock, and a cable adapter. I can't lock a J1772 cable and a steel cable at the same time, It does work while charging. I tried it on my portable charger and it should fit a L2 charge cord just fine. It's nice, because if someone does unplug it, the alarm (very loud) goes off.

[protomech]

Here's the exchange from back in November.

It is far more likely that I'll have to plug into a regular 110 socket somewhere (even at work where they provide 2 J1772 charging stations free, but the first 2 of 7 Leafs that show up in the morning already claim those and the rest use a complicated octopus of extension cords to plug in).  The thing you would need to carry around to plug into a regular socket is far too bulky to just leave on the bike somewhere so you will need to bring a backpack everywhere and fill a good chunk of its space just to be able to have an emergency charging solution with you.

Contrast that to the Zeros that have on-bike carriers for their regular every-day relatively small NEMA cords and the fact that if you forgot one you could probably steal one off of a neighbor/friend's computer or unused TV in a pinch.

J1772 is a great option to have, but the fact that it is your only interface to charge the bike at all is actually reducing convenience a bit.  I'd love to have a NEMA-style socket in addition to the J1772 and a nice pocket on the bike to stash a small 6 or 8 foot NEMA cord.

I understand that the charging infrastructure is still being developed. However - I stand firmly behind our decision to use ONLY a J1772 standard charging interface.  A NEMA-style cord is not appropriate for safely charging an electric vehicle.  This style cord is designed for indoor and outdoor appliances, and it's use on a newly designed EV is borderline negligent in my opinion.  The example you provide is one of the problems - most computer cables are not rated at the current that an EV will charge at, thus creating a hazardous condition while charging the vehicle.  The use of extension cords for the same purpose are also outside of UL standards.  The Empulse is a REAL electric vehicle, so it has received a REAL electric vehicle charge port and equipment approved and rated for that task.

At the moment, the Level 1 charging cordsets tend to be a bit large and bulky, owing to their origin with electric cars rather than motorcycles.  I do think these cordsets will become much smaller and cheaper with time.  As they fit a standard, there are multiple vendors competing, and all are compatible.  I am charging an Empulse as I type this with the charge cord set I have in my garage for my Chevy Volt.  Works great.

We will be releasing our Givi bag option for the Empulse shortly, which will make carrying the L1 cordset all the easier without giving up space in your backpack.

I have to say that in 9k miles I've charged my bike away from home on 6 occasions @ L1 using the frame-stowed cable. On 5 of these occasions I could have brought a J1772 L1 cable with me, though it would be a bit of a hassle; L2 was not available. On the fourth occasion I would have been SOL and might have had to tow or push the bike home without the frame-stowed L1.

Given an option between Zero's 1-1.3 kW L1 with frame-stowed cable and Brammo's 3 kW L2 J1772 with $$ bulky L1 cable, I think Brammo's charging setup is overall better. But it certainly could be improved.

[Gavin]

I love my cable...I just, for the next few years, would like a standard cable too...

of course I do like Frodus' idea...I have a Xena lock...off to check out the adapter...

Gavin

[00049 (AKA SopFu)]

I bring my EVSE with me very often, and have even had to unexpectedly use it a time or two when my range calculation didn't work quite correctly. With it plugged in, outside of my field of view, I have not had an issue with theft. I think part of the safety is no one knows how valuable they are yet. I wish the plug had a loop for a lock rather than the body of the EVSE, though.

[Gavin]

oh yes, i agree...but all it takes is one person with some EV knowledge and a weak moral compass.

most won't know that the plug is hella expensive. of the few who do, most will be nice, kind people who wouldn't think of taking it...

and then there is that one..."holy crap, that's a 500, 600 hundred dollar plug...I could sell it on ebay for some real cash..." "yoink" sound of plug removed and villain high-tailing it out of there. and then cue sad Gavin.

i am just a bit hesitant...that could change....

of course I already have the xena adapter in my Amazon cart...so hopefully it is a non-issue.

Gavin

[flar]

In the months since I wrote that I came to discover that the nice charging stations at work are actually ancient paddle inductive chargers that are not being used (and the company is dragging its feet on installing modern chargers) so the octopus of cords leading to the 110v outlets is the only solution.  They aren't all plugged in at once, though, some charging stations support 2x12amp chargers and some support 1x12amp charging (and some have no 100v outlets at all), but everyone's home cord is snaked over by the outlet with an implicit "please plug me when you are done in if my plug is anywhere near the outlet".  Even worse, the circuit breakers on the 110v outlets trip once a week or so and it takes facilities at least a day to go reset the breaker. 

Luckily I work off hours...

And, any day there are 4 or 5 $500-$800 home charge cables laying about in the parking lot from the various vehicles waiting for, charging, or done charging.  (No, I will not tell you where I work now.)

My backup plan at work if I can't get plugged in by the time I leave is city streets to a public L2 charger and then having a long dinner getting enough charge to get home, again probably on city streets.

As for locking the cable to the bike - consider that a lock will inform a would-be thief of its value instantly.  Not locking it relies on obscurity for security.  Locking it relies on lack of cutting tools for security.  Also, if more and more are locked to the bike then the ones that aren't locked will become targets for a newly educated populace. 

Is there some way to install a ring around the cable that is not easily removed, but then allows you to pass a cable through?  I'm thinking of a U-shaped device that goes around the charge cable, but then you pass a security cable through the ends of the U preventing the J1772 plug from passing through.  The security cable then attaches to your main bike (disk) lock...

[Shinysideup]

Or... when the side cases become available, it may be possible to install a 120V socket on the case, which would be for plugging in a suitably heavy gauge extension cord to get to a 120V outlet.

The cord with the J1772 pistol plug on it could be passed through a slot cut into the side case where the lid meets the body. A grommet could be split and glued into each side of the slot to protect the cord from chafing.

That way the Clipper Creek unit could be stowed in a locked side case and out out sight as well as out of the weather. The only easy item to pilfer would be the extension cord, which isn't very attractive to thieves, and easily replaced.

[FrankH]

I have the Plus (as you know) and I think it's indeed the better option for me because:

• I think it looks a lot better (but that's a matter of personal preference)
• It's a lot cheaper
• It's available in Europe

I'm only jealous of you Empulse owners because it seats two, it accelerates like a real motorcycle away from traffic lights, and... it could charge at regular public charge points here.

The public charging situation here is somewhat the opposite from what you describe: they removed all charging points for e-scooters that had standard plugs and now the only way to charge the Plus at public charge points is with a €300 converter cable. I'm not going to buy that because I can charge at home and at work from standard sockets but it does keep me from trying to do a longer trip.

[protomech]

Do you have J1772 points there. FrankH? Or the Mennekes points? For the latter (and a J1772-capable EV) you just use a J1772 to Mennekes cable?

[Adan]

Timely thread, as I'm picking up my Plus today from Scuderia.  When we moved and I saw that I needed more range, I pondered options including the Empulse and the Zero S, and test rode them both.  The Zero was fine.  The Empulse knocked my socks off.  But ultimately I decided that neither fills the role of urban runabout as well as the Enertia.  Having been on one for a year and a half, I've come to rely on it's metro virtues: lightweight and easy to handle, superb ergonomics for the city, great handling and just enough power and acceleration, and easy on the eyes! 

The main difference in my situation now is that I have 8 miles of freeway to cover in my commute.  The Enertia Classic can handle it, but the Plus will be better because I won't be babying the throttle as much.

The empulse would give me something the Enertia doesn't, namely, a riding thrill unmatched by any other bike I've ridden.  But at the same time, it wouldn't be as good as the Enertia for running 5 errands on the way home from work.  I'd love to have the thrill of the Empulse, but right now the functionality of the Enertia will make the biggest difference in my quality of life.

Price was also a factor, unfortunately, as we've just piled most of our money into the new house.

There is still an Empulse in my future, but probably only when I'm ready to give up my gas bike, which may happen in couple years. 

[Gavin]

Agree totally...in fact, if money was no option, I would have a Plus and an Empulse (I tried to convince Adrian that they never sent me an Enertia, but he wouldn't believe me--Me: "Send back the Plus? What Plus?. Adrian" "Ah, I see your conscience has left you." Sadly there was just too much evidence on my Blog )

I could see the Enertia for my daily commute and the Empulse for weekends and 2 up riding with my wife. And for showing off. The Enertia turned heads, the Empulse drops jaws...

Still, since I was only getting one, the Empulse was best for me. And the Empulse is still a great city bike.  But I still do miss that Enertia Plus...a great bike.

G

[Adan]

Well after a couple hours with the Plus, I'm pretty pleased.  There is definitely more to the Plus than just double the range.  Compared to the Enertia Classic, it feels more like a real motorcycle, and a good one at that.  I'll write more in the Plus section of the forum.