Author Topic: Slow Speed Maneuvering  (Read 1912 times)

littlefreak3000

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Slow Speed Maneuvering
« on: August 29, 2014, 01:52:23 PM »
So first week with the Empulse and I'm finding slow speed maneuvering a bit difficult. I haven't been riding the clutch on it as I was taught in my MSF course because when I try it doesn't feel the same. Is it normal to ride the friction zone on the Empulse at slow speeds? Should I be practicing this?

Jeff

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2014, 03:31:23 PM »
Riding the clutch at parking lot speeds with the Empulse is definitely not necessary, because a.) the bike can't stall, and b.) the throttle is so direct and sensitive.

In my opinion, low-speed maneuvering is probably the most difficult part of riding a motorcycle, period.  Once you get up to speed, physics does a pretty good job of keeping you and the bike upright, but wobbling around at 2 miles an hour is a VERY hard thing to do, especially just starting out.  The one downside of the Empulse vs the 250s you rode at the MSF is that the Empulse weighs much more (probably at least 100 pounds more) -- part of what you are feeling is the additional weight constantly trying to fall over.  The throttle, though, is a massive win.  As your wrist gets more sensitive and you get better at make those constant fine-tune adjustments to the throttle, you'll forget about the weight.

Maneuvering a gas bike at low speeds is even more difficult, because you have to worry about riding the clutch and stalling and doing something with your left arm in general.  With the Empulse you mainly just have to be concerned with adjusting a giant light switch dimmer, effectively.

What I would practice (i.e. it helped me a lot early days) is balancing at stops.  I actually still do play the game of when I'm coming up to a stoplight in traffic or whatever, trying to not put my feet down.  Instead of coming to a full stop, try to inch forward as slowly as possible with your feet up until the light turns.  It's a dumb thing that passes the time in traffic, but also helps familiarize your body with the balance of the bike and how various minute adjustments to throttle affect it.

Also I'd highly recommend casually farting around in an empty parking lot as a means of low-speed practice.  If you have friends with bikes it can be a fun joint exercise as well.

kingcharles

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2014, 04:32:09 PM »
Use the rear brake and throttle at the same time to keep motor traction at all times. It may seem like wasting energy but this will give you more balance and control.
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kingcharles

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 04:33:30 PM »
Oh, and never use your front brake in slow tight turns!
Once you go EV, gas is history!

00049 (AKA SopFu)

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 05:42:22 PM »
King Charles is spot on. Drag the rear brake to keep tension on the drive train. Never use the front brake when the steering is turned at all.
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Virtually Yours

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2014, 09:38:08 PM »
Throttle control, Throttle control, Throttle control...
I've progressed to the point (+/- 5,000 miles) I don't need to drag the rear brake. Getting use to the throttle with slow maneuvers took some time but practice practice practice. There seems to be about <1/8 twist to get it moving but after that balance and practice...
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littlefreak3000

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 10:08:51 PM »
I'll have to try dragging the rear break and maybe Sunday I'm going to go to the MSF parking lot and practice.

MichaelJ

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2014, 02:08:26 AM »
Glad to hear you picked up your Empulse, littlefreak3000!

When I first picked up my Empulse, my wife had brought me to the dealership in the car so that I could ride back with her.  There wasn't much parking nearby, so we walked a couple of blocks to the store.  When I accompanied her back to the car, following her at pedestrian speeds was remarkably easier than I thought it would be.  With my ICE cruiser, I would be flailing the handlebars left and right violently to stay upright, and making a lot of noise feathering the throttle like you would suspect.  However with the Empulse, I didn't have to steer wildly or put my foot down that much to stay upright...and the quiet and lack of exhaust made it a much more pleasant experience than waddling an ICE bike or looking like a loon swinging the handlebars back and forth!

All the way back to the car, we both had a chuckle at all the attention we were getting.
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plukcc

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2014, 07:19:11 AM »
electric bike don't have clutching problem , but it has gear lag problem !!!!

i suggest we have a addition mode,
While the brake is on, the system will check the speed of the bike and the gear position of the bike and add some power to the motor so that the gear is always engaged

the down size is more energy consumption but it will be a lot smoother especially when the bike accelerate in slow speed

MichaelJ

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2014, 05:22:00 PM »
Gear lag?  I've noticed what might be the same thing, but I'm not sure from your description.

When I pull the clutch, the motor does not always feel like it immediately disconnects the motor from the wheel, so I don't immediately begin coasting.  There is sometimes a delay of 1-3 seconds before the bike feels like it is coasting.  Do you experience this symptom?
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Shinysideup

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2014, 06:39:16 PM »
Gear lag?  I've noticed what might be the same thing, but I'm not sure from your description.

When I pull the clutch, the motor does not always feel like it immediately disconnects the motor from the wheel, so I don't immediately begin coasting.  There is sometimes a delay of 1-3 seconds before the bike feels like it is coasting.  Do you experience this symptom?

Yes I do, at slower speeds. But I think what MichaelJ may mean by "gear lag" might what I'd call "drivetrain slack", the clunkiness one hears and feels as the lash of the mechanical system is used up before forward motion begins.

I don't find either characteristic particularly bothersome in slow speed maneuvering, once I got throttle control dialed it. It's not so much that the throttle is "twitchy" as that it's just more delicate, requiring less inputs and more smoothness. Once mastered, I find I like it.

A tip for the OP's parking lot practice: put it in Normal mode and use 3rd gear.

After getting used to the Empulse, I hopped back on a TMax scooter and felt I had to jam the throttle half-way around the bar before anything even began to happen!

In so many ways, the Empulse rewards smoothness and precision. At the same time, I find it very forgiving at speed. But, man, is it hard to pick up by myself! :'(

skuzzle

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2014, 01:13:10 AM »
When I pull the clutch, the motor does not always feel like it immediately disconnects the motor from the wheel, so I don't immediately begin coasting.  There is sometimes a delay of 1-3 seconds before the bike feels like it is coasting.  Do you experience this symptom?

I'm not sure that the clutch will ever completely disengage from the engine on the Empulse.  It is certainly not like a ICE bike where pulling the clutch doesn't feel like the bike is in neutral.  Sometimes I will push the Empulse from a charge station to a near by parking spot.  There is no difference between clutch and no-clutch when pushing the bike in gear.

I do think the slow speed throttle response is great.  We have a metered on-ramp near work that has an up hill run to the highway.  I would have to slip the clutch constantly on my old ICE going up the hill at rush hour.  With the Empulse, I cruise up at 2-3 MPH without stopping once or having to use a clutch.

BrammoBrian

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2014, 11:16:44 AM »
For a rider looking for an improvement in clutch feel and disengagement, I would highly recommend the Barnett Kevlar Clutch upgrade in the Aftermarket parts catalog.  This clutch has better fiber materials than the stock clutch and a little bit stiffer springs to help achieve the full disengagement at slow speed.  I've been using a Barnett clutch in my bike since the kit was available, and have been really pleased with the improvement.  I'm pretty sure that nearly all the bikes racing in AHRMA are also using this clutch...



Riding technique is largely based on what you learned to ride on and for those that learned to slip the clutch a lot to manage slow speed maneuvering, I think you'll be happy to get this feel back with the upgrade.  I typically don't slip the clutch at slow speed, but I will admit that it's come in handy once or twice in odd circumstances... For example, I gave a presentation at my wife's middle school, and they actually ASKED me to ride the bike through the halls!  8) Torquey bike on polished tile usually ends badly, so I was glad to have the ability to ride the clutch a bit to very carefully manage power delivery to the rear wheel.  You can go from looking like the coolest guy on the planet to the village idiot very quickly in that situation if you're not careful!  ;)

BrammoBrian

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Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2014, 11:19:08 AM »
Use the rear brake and throttle at the same time to keep motor traction at all times. It may seem like wasting energy but this will give you more balance and control.

I also highly endorse this technique.  Dragging a little rear brake helps a ton!  You'll find yourself using the technique more often than you'd think AND you'll get a feel for the pressure required and power of the rear brake, which tends to get ignored by novice riders. 

kingcharles

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Re: Re: Slow Speed Maneuvering
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2014, 11:27:45 AM »
Gear lag?  I've noticed what might be the same thing, but I'm not sure from your description.

When I pull the clutch, the motor does not always feel like it immediately disconnects the motor from the wheel, so I don't immediately begin coasting.  There is sometimes a delay of 1-3 seconds before the bike feels like it is coasting.  Do you experience this symptom?
I only get that when the gearbox is cold. After a bit if riding the clutch works fine.
Once you go EV, gas is history!