Author Topic: Victory Empulse TT???  (Read 6834 times)

00049 (AKA SopFu)

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2015, 08:53:21 PM »
Down to one model, $1k more expensive than the R, and less torque. They say same motor, so I wonder if that is just a tuning difference. I don't see ABS notches on the front rotors. It appears the Ashland bikes may be the ones to have. 3.6kw charger, and additional 1Kwh of capacity would be nice, however.

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/2016-victory-empulse-tt-electric-motorcycle-road-test-first-ride-polaris-brammo-livewire?image=0
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Shinysideup

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2015, 08:55:01 PM »
Sorry, Jeff. No fairing yet, but in August you CAN get performance forks for $2299.99. And I KNOW you're gonna order some!

Shinysideup

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2015, 09:02:23 PM »
From the First Ride article:

"Manipulating the notchy gearbox only provides a slight increase in acceleration compared to parking it in any upper gear."

Really?? Not according to my highly calibrated butt dyno! First gear hauls my assets, 4th, not so much. Kinda makes ya wonder if they RODE the thing! >:(

littlefreak3000

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2015, 09:06:36 PM »
My guess that just means the R forks instead of the base forks. So the 2013 R I got in August for 13K is now work 22.5K minus the depreciation. I'm happy with that. I want that seat and I want the windshield.

frodus

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Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2015, 09:10:53 PM »
Seems ok, but I'm glad I got mine when I did. Hope they offer more lower end models.



roma258

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2015, 09:14:31 PM »
Parts and dealership support, that's all I care about! I think MY 2017 you'll really start to see the fruits of Polaris investment, this is just to tide things over. I do wonder how well these are gonna sell. A $20k Empulse TT is a pretty tough proposition compared to a $16k Zero SR.

Shinysideup

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2015, 09:38:57 PM »
Parts and dealership support, that's all I care about! I think MY 2017 you'll really start to see the fruits of Polaris investment, this is just to tide things over. I do wonder how well these are gonna sell. A $20k Empulse TT is a pretty tough proposition compared to a $16k Zero SR.

Agreed, but the TT is aimed at a different (and smaller!) market segment, and as such, offers much higher quality components partially justifying the cost delta.

I haven't ridden the latest offering from Zero with all the improvements, but I'd be highly reluctant to give up my Brembos! Zero's earlier brakes were less-than-confidence inspiring and in nowhere near the same league. Maybe it's time for another test ride!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 01:14:56 AM by Shinysideup »

Brammofan

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2015, 09:49:07 PM »
The Brammoforum Wiki is still active: http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki

roma258

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2015, 10:08:55 PM »
There's already a few first ride videos floating around. This is the best write-up I've seen so far. Some new nuggets:
Quote
The most notable changes are a lithium-ion battery pack with 10% greater capacity (now rated nominally at 10.4 kilowatt hours), a narrower rear tire, new seat material and a cush-drive setup using rubber dampers in the sprocket to ease the abrupt throttle transitions we noted in our previous testing.

Sometimes the simplest things have major effects, and that’s the case with the switch from the Brammo’s 180/55-17 rear tire to the Victory’s 160/60 rear bun. What’s given up in terms of visual butchness is gained back in spades by dramatically more agile steering responses.
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/victory/2016-victory-empulse-tt-first-ride-review.html
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 10:15:53 PM by roma258 »

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2015, 11:21:42 PM »
Glad to see the Empulse/ electric motorcycles are making some new noise in the media!  I agree with you roma258, by 2016 or 17 there should be a very refined or completely redesigned model that I am now anxiously awaiting  :)

At $22,500 for the model with the fully adjustable forks I feel fortunate to have picked up my R for $17,000 (post 10% federal tax credit).  And I envy anyone who bought one at the fire sale prices.

Shinysideup I agree with you about the battery bracket redesign.  I don't hate the new design but I prefer the original exposed cell look. 

I wonder why motorcycle.com thinks that the cush-drive is new?  I assume they are just confused unless there is some new and improved version....... probably just confused.
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protomech

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2015, 01:39:34 AM »
- Motorcycle.com claims the suspension is fully adjustable. Take with a grain of salt.
- 10.4 kWh is indeed a decent bump in capacity. I suspect this is with a 28s10p battery using the same 10Ah cells.
- 3.6 kW onboard charger is also a small bump. Maybe this is Eltek's 2nd gen Powercharger? The seat-off views sure look like the 1st gen Powercharger still.
- Bold New Graphics! The Victory stickers on the fake tank sure are ugly.
- Price bump to go with the extra battery. It seems like Brammo had trouble moving the bikes even at fire sale pricing; Victory has a rough path ahead of them. But maybe they will be helped by a ...
- Real dealer and support network. This is pretty huge, and honestly probably trumps anything else here. Butts on bikes sell more electrics than all the digital ink spilled.
- No ABS! Zero has been reasonably successful overseas, though not without some struggling. If the Empulse TT sells decently, perhaps a future model will pick up ABS.
- New cast wheels are likely cheaper. A narrower tire is good.. I'm really curious what inputs forced the decision for the 180 width tire on the original Empulse.

At the Empulse's last update, the E1 and 2014 Zero SR both faced off at the $17k price point. I thought that was a fair matchup; the Zero was quicker and lighter, but the more basic Empulse had better equipment and a real level 2 onboard charger.

The basic Empulse has gotten the axe, and that leaves a lightly refreshed Empulse TT at $20k facing off against a $16k Zero SR. Both bikes have 10% more capacity than at the last matchup; the Zero has high quality suspension and ABS brakes now. The Empulse still retains its signature edges: six-speed gearbox, liquid-cooled powertrain, and level 2 charging. But, that price gap!

And when placed in Victory's existing lineup.. it actually lines up okay. None of the Victory bikes are sold on top speed, and the Empulse should be about as fast as the cruisers and faster than the baggers in a straight line. And once you take a turn..

Ultimately the TT bike is not for "us", the electric enthusiasts. Most of us have been riding electric for a couple of years anyways, as soon as production electrics with serious range became available. To us, the TT is boring; small capacity bump, small price bump on top of a light refresh to a bike first introduced 3 years ago. In 3 years Zero has doubled the range of their bikes, doubled the power, and seriously upgraded the quality of the components.. and though that speaks to the room Zero had to grow with their 2012 bikes, it's still disappointing to see only a light refresh of the Empulse.

Instead, the Empulse TT is for the "early mainstream" crowd. Gas riders, who maybe heard something about "those electrics" winning at Pikes Peak or making huge strides at Isle of Man, but never understood what a "Blammo" was. Tesla has done their part to make electrics sexy and desirable; a few years experience with production electrics have put to rest some early concerns about battery longevity (when's the last time you heard doom and gloom about battery life based on cellphone and laptop experience?), and level 2 charging stations are fairly prolific in most larger cities.

Convincing the early mainstream riders that electric is worthwhile will be an uphill road for Victory. $20k is a big scary sticker, but it'll be priced in the middle of all the other bikes on a Victory showroom floor, and I suspect that gives dealers some leeway to haggle with buyers. Polaris has seen a fair bit of success selling the oddball Slingshot, and perhaps they can repeat that with the Empulse.

And you can bet every other traditional manufacturer will be watching with close attention.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 09:11:58 AM by protomech »
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Richard230

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2015, 09:24:57 AM »
That is an excellent analysis, Protomech.   :)
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Shinysideup

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2015, 11:47:00 AM »
And you can bet every other traditional manufacturer will be watching with close attention.

This was my thought also. Especially H-D and Livewire. When and IF Harley delivers, then there will be a race between two large companies and that can only help the evolution of electrics, and, possibly, bring others into the arena, if the sales numbers increase.

All we need now is $10/gallon petrol! ;)

Adan

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2015, 02:07:54 PM »
I predict significant factory to dealer incentives by late fall, by which time it will be clear that it's not selling much.

I'm just happy to see the Empulse lives on, because that means continued support for my bike.  I'd like to have the skinnier rear wheel (if that's even backwards compatible?), but I'm not going to be putting money into improving my 2013 E1.  It serves me fine as is and so I just want to get my money's worth from it in commuter miles.

protomech

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Re: Victory Empulse TT???
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2015, 03:14:19 PM »
I predict significant factory to dealer incentives by late fall, by which time it will be clear that it's not selling much.

I'm just happy to see the Empulse lives on, because that means continued support for my bike.  I'd like to have the skinnier rear wheel (if that's even backwards compatible?), but I'm not going to be putting money into improving my 2013 E1.  It serves me fine as is and so I just want to get my money's worth from it in commuter miles.

It's only going to become available in Fall 2015. I don't expect to see large initial sales - fall is not a great time to introduce a new bike, but it will prime for sales in the spring next year. If sales are flat then Polaris will probably introduce incentives in the summer.

Zero is also likely to announce their 2016 models in fall, with availability in early 2016. I don't expect to see any huge changes from them, but I would not be surprised if they finally introduce a slightly faster charging solution similar to Brammo.
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