Charging Q

[CBke]

a simpler explanation? 

I give it a try.
If you turn the key to the "off" position, you disconnect the charger from the battery managment system  but the charger stays connected to your power outlet. As long as the charger is connected, it will pull a small zero-last electric stream.

[GeorgeS]

  The second stage will allow charging at 34A with the charger plugged into a 240V single phase household dryer outlet. This project is still in the works, so I may be revealing too much too soon, but I figure you guys (and gals) are here to get the inside scoop, so now you've got it...

Thx for the input Brian.

Fast charging is where it's at w/ all EV's. Look at the Leaf w/ 50 kw of charging (2C). With the charging rates you guys have posted on your website (empulse) you are only charging at 1/3 C and we all know even the slowest recharge rate for a Li bat is one hour (1C).

Since you guys have an OFF BOARD charger this actually gives you a little flexibility:

If you are going to charge at 34 amps and around 90 Volts for the 6.0  I would suggest for the Empulse 10.0 you hold the current the same and just increase the Voltage from the 88 V for the 6,8 to 111V for the 10. This would basically allow you to keep the same wire sizes but at the same time increase the power output of the charger to 3740 watts from about 2900 watts. It's a win win from both the customers and mfg/cost point of view. You guys can keep your mfg cost down and the customer gets a faster charge!!!

GSB

[Kelly Olsen]

I will ask the following understanding that "the project is still in the works" and there may not yet be an answer or Brammo may not want to answer:

1. What I'm inferring from the discussion is that there will possibly be an optional charger available from Brammo that will allow a faster charge for the Enertia + by plugging this device into a 240V outlet that one may have at their house or workplace and then plugging in the Enertia + into that device which will reduce the time that it would take using the standard 120V plug straight into a 120V outlet. Is this the correct conclusion?

If this is correct, will this device have an adapter that can fit on a SAE J1772 plug which is the new standard for all chargers in the U.S.? For instance, will you be able to take this device along with you and pull into the mall or workplace where there is a new J1772 charger with Level Two charging and use the optional Brammo device to connect to the J1772 charger or will you need access to a standard AC 240V 3-prong plug receiving wall outlet like one has for a household dryer, etc?

[BrammoBrian]

George,

The Enertia Plus and Empulse use an 88.8 Volt nominal battery.  This means that they charge at just over 100V.  I'm not familiar with the Leaf's fast charginig, but we typically like to see charging rates no greater than .5C to prolong the cycle life of the batteries.  Nissan may have a cell that is more tolerant to "fast charging", but there is no doubt that the cycle life will be less than if they were charging at a lower rate.

[GeorgeS]

If this is correct, will this device have an adapter that can fit on a SAE J1772 plug which is the new standard for all chargers in the U.S.? For instance, will you be able to take this device along with you and pull into the mall or workplace where there is a new J1772 charger with Level Two charging and use the optional Brammo device to connect to the J1772 charger or will you need access to a standard AC 240V 3-prong plug receiving wall outlet like one has for a household dryer, etc?

The 220v charger for the Enertia plus and the Empulse, according to Brian, Is an OFF BOARD charger. If you are going to charge at work, you will need to keep a charger at work or carry it with you. You would then plug this charger into a standard 220V, 40 amp (or 50 amp) outlet. Since the J1772 plugs put out  220VA/C I suppose Brammo could put a receptacle on their off board charger that would accept the J1772 handle but you still have to have your own Brammo offboard charger. The J1772 charging system is for EV's with an ON BOARD charger.

[GeorgeS]

George,

The Enertia Plus and Empulse use an 88.8 Volt nominal battery.  This means that they charge at just over 100V.  I'm not familiar with the Leaf's fast charginig, but we typically like to see charging rates no greater than .5C to prolong the cycle life of the batteries.  Nissan may have a cell that is more tolerant to "fast charging", but there is no doubt that the cycle life will be less than if they were charging at a lower rate.

Brian,
The Empulse 10. is 111 V while the 6 and 8 are 88. So if you have a charger that puts out 34 amps to the battery at 100 volts for the 6 and 8, You will need to have a charger that puts out a around 120V for the 10. If the 10. charger is 34 amps to the battery (like the 6.0 and 8.0) and the required 120V DC (for the 10.) this gives you a charger that is around 4080 watts and you will be charging at less than .5C. --GSB

[seanmcp]

Since the J1772 plugs put out  220VA/C I suppose Brammo could put a receptacle on their off board charger that would accept the J1772 handle but you still have to have your own Brammo offboard charger. The J1772 charging system is for EV's with an ON BOARD charger.

The issue here is all the UL listing crapola once you start plugging A into B into C Sadly, lots of things make perfect sense from an electrical PoV but legalese gets in the way!