Enertia Plus version 2.

[Gavin]

Ps...can't wait till Proto comes here and explains all the tech mumbo jumbo....gah, he is a smart one.


G

[Kelly Olsen]

Hopefully getting closer to being on the road.

[Gavin]

Tru dat



so hoping Proto comes here and either verifies or corrects me...but in terms of top speed, if just going by the bump from 76.8Vdc to 88.8Vdc, top speed should increase from 65mph in the Classic to approx 75mph in the Plus. Which makes the Plus just about perfect for me.



Gavin


edit...i should say "could" increase...there are likely ways Brammo, if they desire to, can keep the top speed at 60+ vs 70+....I do think having top speed advertized as 70+ or 75mph could help sales some....Americans like speed.

edit 2....

70Ah

...isn't the current Enertia at 80Ah? What is the difference? Thanks

[protomech]

New battery tease following J1772 information? It's like a second Christmas : )

I guess you'll probably mount one module above the center spine and one below. Each module should be as large as 3 of the Valence packs (3x 12.8v = 37.2v 40Ah for comparison). May not need to change the design much.

Each module is a 12 sets of cells (3.7v x 12 = 44.4v 70 Ah = 3108 wh). Maybe large-format cells, 70 Ah each?

Brammo probably wants to reuse these cells and modules as much as possible. Probably you will see one module for the Enertia Non-Plus, two in the Enertia Plus. Each module has as much energy as six of the Valence modules (3.2v x 4 = 12.8v 40 Ah = 512 wh).

***

Brammo is claiming industry-leading specific capacity from their new battery modules.

Tesla Roadster cells are 185 wh/kg. Entire pack is 117 wh/kg.
Nissan Leaf cells are 157 wh/kg. Module of 4 cells is 132 wh/kg. Entire pack (48 modules) is 82.1 wh/kg. That's a lot of packaging..

Enertia Classic (good term) modules are 79 wh/kg.
If BPM 44/70 weighs as much as 3 valence modules then it should be around 159 wh/kg. Cells are probably 190 wh/kg. At least.

Panasonic is producing 18650 250 wh/kg 3.1 Ah cells now. They're scheduled to produce 3.4 Ah and 4.0 Ah cells (same specific capacity) in 2012 and 2013. Maybe these will show up in the Tesla Model S..

***

I think the Enertia Classic was limited by battery power. Valence states their modules can support 2C discharge continuous, 3C discharge for short bursts. With a 3 kwh pack, that means you're limited to 6kw continuous (or 8 hp). 60 mph is probably as fast as it can go to overcome drag.

With a presumably much higher power cell (BrammoBrian doesn't say it's the same cells used in the TTXGP race bike, only cell count) .. and twice the capacity, the Enertia Plus should be entirely motor-limited in power.

The Perm 120L (Enertia Classic) is rated at only 7 kw continuous (15s up to 10kw, Brammo listed the Enertia at 13kw peak iirc). So the Enertia Classic motor and battery pack were well-matched. This new battery is significantly more powerful than the old motor..

Brammo can easily change the gearing. A higher voltage battery doesn't necessarily mean a higher top speed. But it's possible. We can hope!

[Gavin]

See...that is why I was waiting on Proto...

reading his posts make me:

wish i was smarter

ashamed that I am not

and

glad that he is here to explain things to me...


now back to trying to get this fork into the outlet by my desk....

Gavin

[protomech]

The important thing is to use lots of numbers in your post. Everyone's eyes glaze over and they assume you're really smrt!~

Also make lots of assumptions. Don't bother to cite your claims, they're laughably obvious!

[Gavin]

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[Gavin]

Do each of those modules really look like three of the Valence U Charges?? to me they look like 2...but I don't really know...




I do like this image...if the main frame is still in this shape it would be easy to put those new modules in




and maybe have some extra space inside for a quieter fan or small storage or 2 more modules of batteries

Gavin

[860]

now back to trying to get this fork into the outlet by my desk....

Is that a 110 or 220 outlet?  With a 110, I prefer a 42 degree bend on fork tines on the left hand of the fork, and then 90/45 degree s-bend on the right side of the fork.  If you are left handed, multiply those angles by cos(X).

If it's 220, you can go ahead and use the "Spoon Bending" technique to bend your fork into a large U-shape, and then insert both ends.

For non-US outlets, it gets more complex.  Australia and anywhere south of the equator isn't too bad, just make all the bends counter-clockwise instead of clockwise.  For EU, you can use a "Gnome Adapter" (as seen on TV).

This all applies to 4-tine forks.  If you have a 3-tine fork, you're on your own.

*grin*

[Gavin]

dang....now i even feel dumb about how i put forks into outlets...didn't know there was a smart way...i just jam really really hard...


as for the battery size...we could compare them if we can get a picture of Otto holding one of the new modules to compare to this image...




Gavin

[860]

Panasonic is producing 18650 250 wh/kg 3.1 Ah cells now. They're scheduled to produce 3.4 Ah and 4.0 Ah cells (same specific capacity) in 2012 and 2013. Maybe these will show up in the Tesla Model S..

I read somewhere that Panasonic and Tesla actually collaborated on a Model S specific battery cell.  So while they are based upon Panasonic's commodity 18650 cells, they are supposed to have something special about them that makes them better for EV's than any of their other batteries they are selling.  

What that means technically I couldn't say.  It could all just be marketing talk?

Anyways, if there is something actually behind it technically for EV's, it would be interesting to know what it could add for Brammo bikes.

[BrammoBrian]

as for the battery size...we could compare them if we can get a picture of Otto holding one of the new modules to compare to this image...

Gavin

Here's a photo that provides a better reference for size.  It's a little deceptive, but the single BPM 44/70 does take up the space of 3 Valence U1-XP modules, but provides twice the capacity.



Protomech's pretty much got it nailed.  I'm impressed.  We'll see if the new Tesla Model S can nudge beyond the 44/70 in specific energy, but if it does, it won't be by much.  Being in the company of Tesla ain't so bad either...

[Gavin]

yeah, Proto's a bit of a show off

Will the Enertia Classic keep the Valence Batteries or go to one of the Brammo modules? And if one, what will you do to keep the nice weight and balance of the current model?

Gavin

ps....per Proto previous post (say that 5 times fast)....

So the Enertia Classic motor and battery pack were well-matched. This new battery is significantly more powerful than the old motor..

So new battery photo...next new motor photo??

[FreepZ]

So new battery photo...next new motor photo??

I hope so. Some folks out there (who shall remain nameless) believe that the Brammo bike is vaporware. Hey, that black box could just be some cheap toolbox with a couple of wires coming out of it! I guess there's no pleasing some folks.

As for me, I'm pretty excited to see that photo! And I'm looking forward to seeing more of them; transforming the vapor into a very awesome motorcycle.

[Gavin]

mmmmm, Brian.....I need a photo fix....getting the shakes and scratching one arm over and over....


g