B40 error tackling

[Haplo]

And some more pictures:

And the last few pictures and the question what to do next? I haven't taken a closer look the CSV files. Should I examine those deeper to search for some clue there? Or is the conclusion that the temp-sensor on the PCB of Module 4 is bad and should be replaced? Where is the temp-sensor located and have anyone replaced that one before?

[Haplo]

Happy to help.

Your help is very much appreciated, EV Promise!

I took Module 4 apart as you suggested. However, couldn't find much damage there. It was moisty, sure! So that was not OK of course, but apart from that it didn't look bad at all. The bolts connecting the PCB to the cells were corroded and there was some dirt/corrosion visible around the pouch-connections. Also some rust on the PCB around the BUS connectors. I will post some pictures.

[acceler]

Found some corrosion in mine. Going to clean everything up tomorrow.
For now I'm trickle charging the modules up to 16v

[acceler]

More pics

Can I use a toothbrush and electric motor cleaner to clear the corrosion?

[acceler]

Balancing the modules while its open since bike was stitting at 12% for the pass year dead. They started at 14.08v

[EV promise]

Hi Haplo, I'm pleased you've not found anything serious. Module 4 being at the top and the right way up helps I imagine. Hopefully cleaning will sort the issue as 'pcba temperature' on module 4 is the only difference. (As relative humidity is referenced to temperature that can be ignored I believe)
What circuit board revision do you have please? Somewhere between A and G I believe.
 Have you found any corrosion likely to cause issues?
Don't wet u14 which I believe is the sensor for relative humidity.
Also Chech ptc1 just near j9 (male connector) as I think this is temperature sensor.

[acceler]

DeoxIT should be safe to use on the corrosion right?

[Haplo]

Balancing the modules while its open since bike was stitting at 12% for the pass year dead. They started at 14.08v

Nice setup Acceler! Looking like a pro! Hope it helps bringing it back to life. Any news?

@EV Promise.. I examined the board with my collegues of the Electronics department (just 2 desks away.. ), and they believe U38 to be the temperature sensor. I intend to open up another module so I can compare the measurements of that component. Lets see what it brings me.

[EV promise]

Hello Bert, I see where U38 is on your photos. It makes sense to be there. It's clear Brammo rapidly developed the boards. I don't have any images of A spec boards but B spec ones have a relay on them and U33 to U38 are missing. D spec boards like yours and I imagine mine and later boards for Victory bikes move on further.
Good to have someone along the corridor to cast an eye on things. Keep moving forward.

[KaFr]

Balancing the modules while its open since bike was stitting at 12% for the pass year dead. They started at 14.08v

Hi acceler,
when I look at the photo of you balancing the battery cells that are removed from the package, I have one important note:

When you charge the cells from 12 to 100%, they will increase their volume a lot and it will be difficult to put them back in the outer packaging. You'll have to clamp them down like Corbin did. A better option is to discharge the cells after balancing them again to reduce their volume, put them in the package and then charge them again.

It is also very important for this type and chemistry of cells that they have no possibility of movement in the package. Otherwise, cell casing leaks around the electrodes, which is the cause of chemical leakage.

[acceler]

I stopped at 15v when I noticed the swelling. All my experience is with 1860 cells. I've made many packs with those so I did not realize these pouch cells expand so much. The end caps are ratchet strapped. But I did notice it. I'm not going to open the top pack to trickle it. Hopefully just getting the corrosion off these bottom bms boards will be enough to clear the alarm. I ordered some  DeoxIT cleaner that come in tomorrow so I'm going to attempt the cleaning this weekend. Looks like there alot of corrosion  under the 2 outside packs between the bms and Batts.

Has anyone got into the sevcon on a victory? We use sevcon size 4 on our vehicles. There not much to make them "run" just a few grounds "switches" like seat safety, forward, and 2 pins for modes 3 wires for a throttle and 2 for the contactor. Basically about 12 wires to run a sevcon.

My backup plan would be to build a new pack with 1860s since I got thousands of them here in my garage. Lol our bricks are already 15v nominal just like the brammo and run the ant bms that I also have a bunch of. Problem is I would need to just bypass the vcu and trick the sevcon, charger to come on. But on the high side the sevcon can take 144v so if I can log in then I could adjust torque curves, rpm, etc. Pin 13 and 25 is can h and can l. And I got the sevcon software and ixxat adaptor. I make all my own tunes for our scoot and ev's.
Not new to EVs by any means. Just simplier setups that are not so integrated. And this is my first time messing with pouch cells.

Oh also not my first victory empulse. Lol.  I had bike 121 new and absolutely 💯 loved it but had this same b40 code back in like 2019 but Polaris bought it back. Missed it so much that when this bike 48 popped up on marketplace I snatched it up quick to try to revive it.

[EV promise]

Hi acceler , just checking. Do you intend to remove the PCB from module 7 position and check the reverse?
On Victory bikes in the past leakage appears to dissolved some of the tracks on the back as they're upsidedown.
I can tell you're thinking about this.
Would you be able to replace the pouches with 18650's, keeping the current circuit board connections to simplify the change and if so how many mAh do you think this would give compared to the current level which I believe is 9000mAh. 10000mAh on a Victory as they have one more cell in each row.
Thanks

[acceler]

I haven't removed the boards yet. I was waiting for the cleaner to come in tomorrow. So should I NOT remove the boards? I believe you were the person that help me read the file that said mod 7 wasn't responding. And I can see the corrosion under the boards at 5 and 7.
I was just thinking about the 1865 cell because I got so many of them. And that's what I'm familiar with. Only reason. My 48v custom ebike bricks with thier bms are almost exactly the same size as the brammo stacks. Ours are 35ah so 3 in the bottom pack would be almost the same 105ah at 48v nom 50.8v full. I make 48v 60v and 72v for ebikes and scooters. So top pack would need better configuration of the bricks but I could fit 105ah at 60v nom 67 full. With thier own bms units and I think I could fit it all it the brammo cases. That's ONLY a last resort idea. As I would still need to get the sevcon to go to forward mode. And would probably lose all dash functionality  and possibilities the onboard charger.

I really just hope I can fix it back to stock. I'm just bounce ideas around as I look at 30+ batteries lined up in my garage and 6 other ev bikes I got in here. 😆 🤣

The picture is deceiving because the 1865 pack is sitting on top of my power supply. But they do measure about the same with the bms as the individual brammo modules.

[EV promise]

Hi acceler, I do think you should remove board 7 and inspect the reverse looking for damaged tracks or other issues preventing communication making sure you do it safely. 
The B40 code appears to set based on temperature or humidity errors, so around or under U14 and U38 which is next to it. You'll have to see what you find.
 As the communication between  boards 5,6 and 7 is internal on a Victory Empulse and you can see corrosion on board 5 you may need to make a decision on that too.
Korbin was successful and we hope you will be also. Take care.

[acceler]

OK pulled the board and already found what may be the problem. This was just the first board pulled. Screws all should probably be replaced and I may have some bad traces right under where the connector is on the board.
And yup the cell are definitely swelling. 😆  I'm gonna clamp them back down and put the on the load bank to discharge them a bit.