J1772?

[FreepZ]

Check out the Zero connected to the charging stating with an SAE J1772.



Looking at Zero's website, it appears that the J1772 is optional (and costs $500).

Brammo bikes only come with a standard (NEMA 5) wall plug, right? Will there be any way to have some kind of adapter to plug in a J1772? I would think that there are going to be more and more charging locations that have the J1772 connector rather than some wall socket. J1772's are safer than standard NEMA 5 plugs (e.g. you can safely connect one while it's raining).

[HighlanderMWC]

I don't think it likely that an adapter would be able to get approval since the J1772 seems to require proximity detection per Wikipedia. It looks like there are people making them but I don't know if SAE would be willing to allow an official version.

That socket is also large enough they'd need to include it in early design. The current charging socket is under the seat on an Enertia and I don't think that would work for J1772 charging (which would require leaving the seat off while charging).

[Brammofan]

The photo of the Zero and the link to the J1772 option on their website raises more questions than it answers.  Is it truly Level 2 charging going on?  I see three pins in the picture of the charging socket on the Zero website, where the sockets I've seen on, for instance, the Smith Electric Vehicle trucks have all 5 pins visible.  Is this, possibly, 120 volt charging, but the connection just allows you to use the J1772 chargers?

Why am I so suspicious?  Because, if it was truly Level 2 charging going on, Zero would be the first electric motorcycle offering it as an option.  And, if as Richard keeps on insisting, these guys really know how to promote their products, where was the press release on this?  There wasn't one. 

If, on the other hand, this is just a way of using the J1772-equipped charge stations to charge your electric motorcycle, and it's a glorified adapter, then say so, clearly, on your website. 

And if you're wondering whether I'd hold Brammo to the same standard, the answer is yes. 

[protomech]

J1772 on the right, Nissan Leaf.

The 3 major pins that you see are two legs of AC 110V and ground. The other two pins, which you can barely make out on the Zero connector, are for proximity and control. They look like they're more recessed than the power pins.

It's entirely possible that their onboard charger is < 1.5kw and uses 120v. However, Zero claims on the spec page:

Charge time (standard)   4 hours
Quick charge time (option)   2.3 hours (100% charged) / 2 hours (90+% charged)
Input   Standard 110V or 220V

Looks like a 1kw charger standard, and 2kw charging as the optional upgrade.

[Brammofan]

Thanks protomech... that helps.
The "quick charge time (option)" is an accessory that appears to be independent from the J1772 socket.  It is another $499 and appears to be a "second charger".  I'm not sure if you then hook up both the original onboard charger and the second charger, or if the second charger replaces the original one, or what. 

I guess we should go to the Zero Owners Forum to find the answers to these and other questions.

[protomech]

You're right, the copy indicates that the quick charge is a second offboard power charger used in conjunction with the onboard charger. Each charger can supply up to 1kw, so the 2 hour 2kw charge requires both.

This is the offboard quick charger they sell.
http://www.delta-q.com/products/quiq.shtml

This charger, or perhaps the -dci version (integrated 12VDC converter) is the onboard charger installed on their bikes.

2011 Zero XU
2011 Zero S
2011 Zero DS

Both chargers have the same input specs, 120 VAC / 230 VAC rms nominal and the same 1kw power output. Not sure what the Zero's battery voltage is, 58v? Odd. So the Zero's J1772 connector likely only charges at 1kw, though it may be slightly more efficient at 220v.

[FreepZ]

Even if the bike could only charge at 110v, would still like to have a J1772 (provided it's not crazy expensive). When I'm in public, I would feel a lot less guilty sucking power off an official charging station, with it's J1772 connector, rather than surreptitiously plugging into some wall socket.

However, if it would cost $500 just to get a nice adapter without any improved charging time, I think my avaricious side would overcome any feelings of guilt and I would just use the 110 wall socket.

[Brammofan]

Some of these charging stations, Coulomb comes to mind, come with dual power options.  There is a cord for the J1772 power, and also a door opens with access to a 120V outlet.

[FreepZ]

Some of these charging stations, Coulomb comes to mind, come with dual power options.

True. However, the two charging stations that I have seen so far (one outside Orlando City Hall, the other at a Nissan dealership) only appeared to have J1772. Since that's a standard that most EVs seem to be adopting, I wouldn't be surprised to see that showing up all over the place.

[2Slow4u]

There are companies that sell "cheater boxes" for the J1772 plug.

Does anyone know which charger is going to be installed on the bike? 1kW makes me think its a QuiQ charger.

[Brammofan]

I think it is the QuiQ by Delta-Q.  Here's some info from the postings over on elmoto.net:
Ahh, that's what they're doing. The J1772 is one kit, the Quick charge kit is another charger.... offboard from what I see?

With just the J1772 connector, you can use the charging station J1772, which has both L1 and L2 charging..... but still get 1000W.
With the J1772 connector + quick charging kit, you can use the L2 ability of the J1772 connector and get 2000W.

I just don't see how you'd fit bith chargers onboard the bike.

****
Then...

The Zero S has the built in charger for Level 1 charging. The J1772 port only supports level one charging. For level 2 charging you need to plug the second off-board charger into the auxiliary charger input. Using both the on-board charger + off-board charger = Level 2 charging.

Although there is no place to mount the second charger to the bike for on-board Level 2 charging, I don't see this as being prohibitively difficult. As of now, it is a moot point since Level 2 charging stations, or any charging stations are still few and far between... but we're working on that.

[2Slow4u]

I would be very happy if there was a kit for an off board charger. This could also be used as a quick charge circuit for track days with some cable size increases.

[protomech]

Talked with the Hollywood Electric folks about the Zero S's J1772.

It's 120V level 1 charging only Edit: I may have misunderstood this. The onboard charger is 1kw, so it will pull about 8A from the J1772 port, same as the cable that you plug into a standard 120V / 15A socket.

You actually don't need two dedicated circuits to use the quickcharger (2x 1 kw chargers), as they will pull 15-16A and max out one 120V circuit. Two circuits might improve charge speed very slightly.

***

If Level 2 charging with J1772 was available for the Empulse (240V 15A, 3.3kw), it should enable 2h charge times for Empulse 6.0, 3h charge times for Empulse 10.0. Basically, recharge 30 miles of range per hour.

Speculation follows.

Here's a 3.3 kw charger from Delta-Q:
http://www.delta-q.com/products/qmx3_3.html
273 x 200 x 100 mm, 6.2 kg // 10.7" x 7.9" x 3.9", 13.6 lbs

Here's a 3.3 kw charger from Brusa:
http://www.brusa.eu/index.php?id=154&L=1
255 x 250 x 88.5 mm, 6.2 kg // 10.0" x 9.8" x 3.5", 13.6 lbs

Compare to the 1kw charger from Delta-Q:
http://www.delta-q.com/products/quiq.shtml
280 x 246 x 110 mm, <5 kg // 11" x 9.7" x 4.3", <11 lbs

The Zero S uses the 1 kw QuiQ. I don't know what Brammo uses in the Enertia, but it's likely somewhat similar. A 3.3 kw charger is not significantly larger than the Delta-Q 1kw charger, but it is slightly heavier.

The main problem with the two 3.3 kw chargers I linked is that they have a minimum of 200 volt output, appropriate for a > 16 kwh car but not for a smaller bike. The Empulse is in the 88-110 v range (depending on configuration), which is far too low to be charged by these chargers.

Someone may produce a lower-voltage 3.3kw charger. Or Brammo may have the time, money and technical chops to develop one in-house. Regardless, packaging may be a non-consideration but the extra weight and expense may make inclusion as standard equipment dicey.

[2Slow4u]

Since bikes are very tight on packaging space, ideally you could use a setup like AC Propulsion that utilizes the IGBT's and cooling system from the motor controller to act as a charger since both do not operate at the same time. This saves on space/weight by making dual purpose power electronics. However I also know Brammo is going after costs and understand whats associated with that.

I don't see a 3kW charger fitting anywhere on a sport bike to be honest. A 2.5kW charger from ElCon might be reasonable, but they are already too far into development to package that on board.

[2Slow4u]

After a bit more research, I'm pretty sure Brammo is not using a delta Q charger for their on board charging. I believe it is a home brew device since they needed tighter packaging space.