Author Topic: Colorado, revisited  (Read 4067 times)

Brammofan

  • Administrator
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3015
  • Following the momentum of Enertia
    • View Profile
    • Brammofan Blog
    • Email
Colorado, revisited
« on: April 21, 2010, 02:44:55 PM »
I just posted this on Brammofan.com:

Colorado has just approved the Brammo Enertia as eligible for the state’s Alternative Fuel Tax Credit.  Although it doesn’t show up yet on their online document as an approved vehicle, the State said in a recent email:

Quote
Thank you for all the information on your electric motorcycle. It appears to qualify for the Colorado Alternative fuel tax credit.  I show the incremental price difference to be $3,495.00 your vehicle would qualify under category 1 so would be entitled  to an 85% credit. $3,495x.85= $2,971.00 minus any federal tax credit available.
What does this mean in English (and with real numbers)?

It means that if you buy a Brammo Enertia in Colorado, you will initially hand over the retail price of the bike plus any sales tax (I think Colorado’s State Sales Tax is 2.9%, but I’m going to leave all the taxes out of these articles because different cities and counties have their own sales taxes, and, frankly, I’ve got better things to do than to chase down local tax rates.  Better things, like…um… Hey… do your own homework.)  Speaking of homework . . .

Disclaimer: Don’t get your tax or other financial advice from anyone whose online name ends in -fan.  This means: do your own homework on this purchase.  I’m just trying to get you to think.

Colorado by the numbers:

$7995 – Retail price of Brammo Enertia

-$799 – Federal Tax Credit

-$2971 – Colorado Tax Credit

____________________

$4225

Okay, so that’s not quite as good as the $2700 figure I came up with the first time I wrote about this issue, but that’s what you get for trusting the advice of a man who chose his profession because he couldn’t stand the sight of blood and because he didn’t “do” numbers.

Still, $4225 is nothing to sneeze at.

In the current tally of SIWIBABE (States in which I’d buy a Brammo Enertia) here’s the rundown:

Oklahoma: $4059

Colorado: $4225

Illinois: $4240

California: $5834

On some of these, I added things like a “delivery charge” and some fees here and there, but this is just for comparison purposes, anyway.  I’ve never considered moving to Oklahoma before, but given that my home state of Missouri offers exactly zilch in the area of alternative vehicle incentives, it might be worth at least making a friend with a Sooner.

Follow me on Twitter at www.twitter.com/brammofan

Bishop

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • AOL Instant Messenger - brybishop
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2011, 05:50:13 PM »
So beyond all concerns about release dates, and performance/efficiency numbers with regards to the Empulse, the deciding factor for surely all Empulse early adopters is going to price

Surely Brammo has targeted those states where tax credits are high like Colorado, because huge state and federal discounts make the decision to buy much easier.

When the Empulse's release day comes in Colorado, what do we know specifically about the Empulse?  Surely there have been some definitive research at Brammo giving specific estimates when it comes to Colorado's Alternative Fuel Tax Credit and how it will work with the Empulse.

If these estimates exist, could we see them? Are they comparable to the savings we currently see on the Enertia?  Will a 6.0 cost $6,000?  Less?  Will it even be approved for the Alternative Fuel Credit?

How Colorado's tax credit will work specifically with the Empulse I think will be the deciding factor for many in the state.
Game Changer?  Trite but true.

Jay-Fazed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2011, 11:28:25 PM »
i dont want to sound dumb here...BUT. Can someone help me with understanding the tax credit. Does it work like the New home owner credit? As far as you get it on your income tax return? If so I assume you would get the credit on your state return correct? Im just trying to plan ahead. Im from FL but i live in CO(Military) and if the credit only applys to State residents ill just change my residency. Plan on getting out of Military actually and live in CO. And not that it matters but I will be recieving an Honorable Discharge! ;D 6yrs is up and im ready to try something else out.

Brammofan

  • Administrator
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3015
  • Following the momentum of Enertia
    • View Profile
    • Brammofan Blog
    • Email
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2011, 06:26:12 AM »
Hey, there are no stupid questions here, except for the one about whether a dogs mouth is cleaner than a human's mouth.

Your answers can be found in this helpful document on the Colorado Department of Revenue site.

And yes, the Colorado credit would be applied to your taxes for the year you buy the bike, so it would reduce the amount of state income tax you would have to pay by whatever the amount of the credit turns out to be. 

Oh, and thank you for your service!
Follow me on Twitter at www.twitter.com/brammofan

Jay-Fazed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2011, 07:12:09 AM »
Thanks for the link! You guys are real helpful and friendly around here. I like this forum already.

webman

  • Enertia Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 12:18:12 AM »

Oh, and thank you for your service!

+1!!!

eric aka webman
usmc 1987-91
webman, aka eric

brammo vehicle desired:  Empulse 8.0
current rides:  '97 yamaha seca II (low miles, but beater)
'06 honda metro (wife's bike, mostly)
previous bikes:
'97 ducati monster 750
'91 yamaha FZR600
'84 Honda VF750 Interceptor

Bishop

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • AOL Instant Messenger - brybishop
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2011, 03:53:32 PM »
Great link.  Somehow I had not found that one yet. 

So continuing the discussion now that all the facts are clear, the savings we will see in CO is completely dependent on what vehicle is deemed "same or most similar."  Basically, the cheaper that comparable ICE motorcycle is, the bigger the savings we see when buying an Empulse.

Any way we can convince the CO Dept of Revenue that the Empulse is close to a CBR250?  Or a GS500?  I know the quotes we have heard are that it's close to a SV650 in performance, but maybe for the sake of bumping up sales, can we start saying that it is closer to a GZ250?  It will go 100 miles and a 100 mph...
Game Changer?  Trite but true.

Brammofan

  • Administrator
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3015
  • Following the momentum of Enertia
    • View Profile
    • Brammofan Blog
    • Email
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2011, 05:45:11 PM »
Actually, if you want to end up paying less, then you want to convince Colorado that the Enertia is closer to the least expensive bike you can find, since they are trying to compensate you for the amount of the EV premium --- the amount you're paying OVER the cost of a similar size/type of bike.
Follow me on Twitter at www.twitter.com/brammofan

Bishop

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • AOL Instant Messenger - brybishop
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2011, 01:29:24 AM »
Exactly, so if they say that the Empulse is similar in "performance" to a CBR250R or a Ninja 250R, then that's a savings of $5,096 on a 6.0, and $8,496 on a 10.0!

Who wants a 6.0 for $3,899? Or a 10.0 for only $200 more?  THIS GUY.  SOLD.

But if they say that they are similar to a SV650, then the savings drops to $2,121 and $5,521 respectively.  Any model much higher than that, and there is nearly no savings.

For those of us looking to jump on that Empulse bandwagon early, where they call this one means everything.  Brammo needs to start fronting that savings into some power-lobbying!

Game Changer?  Trite but true.

Jay-Fazed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 12:18:49 PM »
So how would one go about convincing CO that the Empulse is like a ninja 250?

EmpulseRider

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2011, 07:07:30 PM »
I think convincing CO that the Empulse is comparable to a ninja 250 may be a bit of a stretch. The comparison most often used is the Suzuki SV650. The benefit is capped out at 6 grand anyway so with the 10.0 it wont make a difference using the 250 as a comp. With the 8.0 and 6.0 its about 1k advantage to use the 250 as a comp. So good luck to you if you decide to go that route.

And please let me know if it works for you. I live in CO as well.

SV650 and Empulse 8.0
http://www.empulsebuyer.com/tcoCalculator.php?sTR=0&fTR=1&sTI=CO&eID=2&kWhC=0.11&eRng=80&bR=0&iceID=10&msrp=5999&gC=2.89&mpg=45&oCC=40&oCI=7500&sC=550&sI=15000

Ninja 250 and Empulse 8.0
http://www.empulsebuyer.com/tcoCalculator.php?sTR=0&fTR=1&sTI=CO&eID=2&kWhC=0.11&eRng=80&bR=0&iceID=7&msrp=4299&gC=2.89&mpg=61&oCC=40&oCI=7500&sC=550&sI=15000

PS: In CO the 6.0 and the 8.0 are almost the same price :)

Jay-Fazed

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2011, 01:51:26 AM »
I saw that the 6.0 and 8.0 were almost the same and thats tempting. But i feel that if your gonna put down the cash might aswell go big. So im going for a 10.0. Although common sense says that battery packs are going to get cheaper and i could get an 8.0 and when the prices come down a bit maybe 3-5yrs then purchase an upgraded pack.

EmpulseRider

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 891
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2011, 05:00:28 PM »
Quote
Thank you for all the information on your electric motorcycle. It appears to qualify for the Colorado Alternative fuel tax credit.  I show the incremental price difference to be $3,495.00 your vehicle would qualify under category 1 so would be entitled  to an 85% credit. $3,495x.85= $2,971.00 minus any federal tax credit available.

Looks like some numbers got transposed here. The actual credit is $2,791.00, just a small difference. Source: http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobheader=application%2Fpdf&blobkey=id&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobwhere=1251687054814&ssbinary=true

See page 16

I wonder what they are comparing the Enertia with to come up with this number? My calculator says the "estimated" discount is $3141.60 when compared to the Kawasaki 250R. Hmmmm...

Bishop

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
    • AOL Instant Messenger - brybishop
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2011, 03:40:36 PM »
I am all for the improvements and new lineup.  If it brings a better product in the end, and means that Brammo will have a better chance of success, I don't have much of an issue with the wait until next year for the Empulse.  (The fact that I am already riding something else at the moment helps a lot  ;) )

My only concern is the availability of state tax credits next year.  Brammo knows that EV credits are going a LONG way in helping sell their bikes, so if Colorado's credits aren't in place next year as well, they are going to miss (in my purely anecdotal opinion) a significant number of sales.

I hope for my own sake, and for the sake of Brammo's success that these EV credits continue at least one more year so viable products like the Empulse can gain some traction.
Game Changer?  Trite but true.

Gavin

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
    • View Profile
    • Sol Power.  BrammoBlog
Re: Colorado, revisited
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2011, 03:49:31 PM »
I agree on all points....I like getting a better product...at the same time, delay is dangerous.

Incentives are HUGE. Getting product in peoples hands is HUGE. Word of mouth and wheels on the road for people to see and covet is HUGE.

Now I admit that getting crappy product out is a mistake. But getting good product out, even if you release better product later, is important.

Fearing any release because your product will be better next year is not a viable business model. Of course your product will improve, but if you never sell anything, well you never sell anything :)

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Waiting for perfect will = zero products sold (get it...it is a double meaning pun).

So work on making great future bikes...but get some models on up for sale this season too...if possible.


Gavin