Has Everyone Forgotten?

[Mithion]

Kind of obvious since the Empulse came out that most attention would be drawn there but have we all forgotten the beautiful, original and pretty darn perfect for its intent Enteria/+?

It still says preorder on the website so when can we expect to actually see the Plus on the road?

[protomech]

They were supposed to be out for review a short while ago. Surprised we haven't seen any reviews pop up.

Deliveries are supposed to start in June. That's.. less than a week out!

[Vibetrippin]

The Enertia would be almost the perfect bike if I knew that I could tweak the programming to give me a top speed of 70 instead of the 60+ that is stated. I don't spend long on the freeway, but when I do I need to be able to do those speeds. I can easily give up a few miles range to be able to spend a handful of miles at the higher speeds.

Has anyone heard anything about cracking that bit of code? Or are we just waiting for these to hit the mainstream and then every code monkey out there will be writing apps for them?

[protomech]

@Vibe - stock front sprocket is 13 tooth.

You could swap it for a 16 tooth sprocket, which would give you the same motor RPM at 73.8 mph as the stock bike turns at 60 mph. I don't know the bore size for the Enertia or how the motor output shaft is keyed, but here's an example sprocket:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-2124-16-E&catname=powerTrans

Note: acceleration will most definitely be negatively affected by increasing the sprocket size. As long as you're okay with that tradeoff (and the speedometer / odometer being wrong) .. then I don't see any reason why the Empulse couldn't do 70 mph. The Perm 126 should be able to hold peak power for a longer distance, and 13 kW is enough for 70 mph. At 70 mph, Zero S uses 180 Wh/mile, 180 Wh/mile * 70 mph = 12.6 kW pulled from the battery, probably only 11 kW at the motor.

[Vibetrippin]

As long as there is room around the front sprocket you can play with all kinds of gearing changes. Unfortunately, the test ride that I did on the classic enertia left a little to be desired in the way of acceleration. I don't know if the + is going to be improved enough there for me to be willing to sacrifice any. I'm used to a big single cylinder so I really enjoy having great off the line torque. I don't mind dropping some of that, but the classic felt too much like I was back on a scooter for my liking. I know that Perm motor should be able to give me amazing off the line power and good top end. The battery pack is capable as well. It's a question of Brammo opening up the programming to allow us to make that power available.
If I want to be super conservative and travel a long way I can ease off the right hand. When I know I'm only going to be 15 miles from my recharge point I want to be able to open that sucker up and hear the electrons fly out my nonexistant tailpipe. I'm okay with only getting half the estimated range if I'm driving like a wicker!

[Mithion]

The biggest issue people have with electric motorcycles is the classic argument of range anxiety which is understandable. Brammo and every other production company has/will put out bikes that first consider range and second consider top speed and acceleration. I think the key in the near future is going to be software customization. I can see a bike with a motor/battery setup that produces a specific range, top speed and acceleration but is factory "tuned" to be at a specific stock setting, most likely for maximum range. The customer will than be able to hook up some sort of handheld device to go into a preconfigured program that displays menus to allow the adjusting of range, top speed and acceleration. This program would show how each other setting is effected when one is tweaked to a new/different seething. For example if you tweak range from the stock setting of 80 miles it will show how top speed and acceleration will then be effected. It could even have preconfigured settings to be selected for max range, max speed and max acceleration. Another aspect could be the rider enters a desired range, or top speed and the program displays what the settings should be and how everything will be effected.

Brammo could easily develop some kind of handheld device that connects to their bikes and allows this type of configuration selection, something created in house that would not void a warranty and ensure the system is not effected negatively, allowing some kind of limitation on what can be configured.

Just my personal ideas. I agree that we should be able to select what the bike can do. My ride to work is almost all highway and everyone on the road travels at at least 70 or 75 eventhough the speed limit is 55. The distance is about 17 miles one way and the 80 mile max range is more than enough but the top speed and acceleration are not. I could easily tweak the bike for a higher top speed and acceleration and not have to worry about my range.

[FreepZ]

My ideal for dealing with range anxiety would be something that worked like this:
You enter the distance you want to go, and the bike figures out the maximum sustained speed that you can go to get there on the current State of Charge (SoC). As you use the available charge, that top speed may change.

Examples:
If you have 10 miles to go and a full battery, then it would say 65 MPH (the max speed of the bike). If you have 30 miles to go and half a battery, it might say 35 MPH, which is slow but would get you there. If the wind is blowing from behind, or it's all down hill, at 15 miles to go you may have more than 1/4 battery, so the recommended speed might change to 37 MPH (slightly faster than 35).

The only problem that I can see with that scheme is that the SoC has been reported to be unreliable when the battery is mostly depleted, so if the algorithm was based only on the reported SoC, the recommended speed would be unreliable too.

Ideally, the software would have to calculate the estimated maximum speed based on your riding habits. So when it sees that you're riding like a hooligan and getting poor range, it adjusts the recommended maximum speed.

[Mithion]

I think that another way to increase the "trust" in an electric motorcycle would be to make a vehicle that has a higher max range and top speed than actually advertised. I do not mean lie about it, what I mean is to make a bike with let's say a max range of 100 miles but make that bikes intended use to be for commuting, urban riding where most rider only need no more than 20 to 50 miles max, this will give that peace of mind to the rider. It's the classic idea of making something better than it needs to be.

[Vibetrippin]

I think that another way to increase the "trust" in an electric motorcycle would be to make a vehicle that has a higher max range and top speed than actually advertised. I do not mean lie about it, what I mean is to make a bike with let's say a max range of 100 miles but make that bikes intended use to be for commuting, urban riding where most rider only need no more than 20 to 50 miles max, this will give that peace of mind to the rider. It's the classic idea of making something better than it needs to be.

Under promise, Over perform. It's what I always like to do for my boss. Keep their expectations low, then blow 'em away on demo day.

[Mithion]

Another thing that will take away range anxiety will be the infrastructure for electric charging stations, most likely slowly, eventually becoming as widespread as regular gas stations. Knowing that when your out for a ride it won't be near impossible to find a place to "fuel" up will definitely help. Every other part of electric vehicles is developing so I think it's safe to say that over time the speed at which EV's can charge will continue to increase in a safe way. It takes only couple minutes to fill a ICE vehicle with gas and until EV's can get at least in that ballpark people will still complain.

[Car Loss]

While an Enertia may turn out to be perfectly practical for in-town use (i.e., a second vehicle), the North American market only has so many people riding two wheels for practicality only.  Motorcycles here are about distinction and difference and defiance, and an errand bike doesn't do that.  (At least, not at $11k.  I would've loved an Enertia in college and after I graduated, but then I wouldn't have had $11k.)  Brammo was right to make a macho moto, and Zero had enough time to realize it too.  I'm guessing that's why the 2012 Zeros lost the "Pillsbury Doughbike" look.

Carlos

[Car Loss]

Another thing that will take away range anxiety will be the infrastructure for electric charging stations, most likely slowly, eventually becoming as widespread as regular gas stations. Knowing that when your out for a ride it won't be near impossible to find a place to "fuel" up will definitely help. Every other part of electric vehicles is developing so I think it's safe to say that over time the speed at which EV's can charge will continue to increase in a safe way. It takes only couple minutes to fill a ICE vehicle with gas and until EV's can get at least in that ballpark people will still complain.

Well, they'll complain anyway (just look at the plug issue), but...

At the bare minimum, level 1 outlets everywhere (maybe even MORE widespread than gas stations) would at least give you a "limp home" option, and avoid the embarrassment of a service call or friend pickup.  Say what you will about gas prices and national security, but pride and the "man factor" are big motivators too- or safety if you're a woman.  Really, a weatherized level 1 costs, oh, nothing.  Putting up the street sign is probably almost as much.  Once charging points are taken for granted, then over-delivering and under-promising isn't an issue anymore.

Speaking of which, someone needs to come up with the single, definitive sign for "charge vehicle here," and get everyone to accept it.  Actually showing people openly and unmistakably that charging stations do exist is part of the battle.

Carlos

[Mithion]

It's all going to happen eventually. By the time my almost two year old daughter is driving I think EV's won't necessarily have taken over ICE vehicles fully but should at least be equal in number. Figure 16-18 years from now battery technology is going to be pretty epic!

[Brammofan]

Speaking of which, someone needs to come up with the single, definitive sign for "charge vehicle here," and get everyone to accept it.  Actually showing people openly and unmistakably that charging stations do exist is part of the battle.

A sign?  Like in this thread?:
http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=417.0

[Richard230]

What I worry about is charging station gouging.  I can see some company installing a charging station along a freeway route where there is no competition and charge big bucks for using it. Sort of like what private companies used to do with isolated pay phones.