Motorcycle.com reviews the production Lightning

[Richard230]

Motorcycle.com has just published a very complimentary review of the street version of the Lightning race bike. The acceleration of the bike shown in their video is just amazing.  The price of the production version is $38,800, twice that of the Empulse R, but if you are looking for a race bike to ride on the street, or in an EV race, the cost is likely less than most any IC race bikes you are likely to be able to buy.  Plus, you can't ride those on the street.  Check out their review here:

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/2012-lightning-motorcycles-exclusive-first-ride-video-91402.html?utm_source=mo08232012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=weekly

[protomech]

Written by Troy Siahan, who rode a Zero S at PIR TTXGP to victory in the eSS class award.

12 kWh standard, 14 kWh and 22 ! kWh options. Given that Lightning claims 100+ freeway miles from the 12 kWh pack, the 22 kWh should do 200 freeway miles. About as many as the Tesla S 85 kWh. I assume the charger is a 30 A 6 kW unit .. which puts your "recharge rate" right around 50 freeway miles per hour. Empulse does 21 miles per hour. Zero does 4.5. It's a good step in the right direction.

When the Empulse was priced at $10-14k, $40k for the Lightning bike seemed on an entirely different level.

At $19k for the Empulse and $39k for the Lightning.. well, Lightning claims (almost) double the highway range. It will do double the speed (100+ mph vs 200+ mph). It makes somewhere around 4 times the power.

I suspect the Empulse is a better streetbike - it has "enough" power for the street, onboard charger (not sure if the Lightning production bike will be onboard or offboard), and I suspect will be somewhat less finicky over time than a very limited production run racebike.

But if you can use the Lightning's capabilities? For example, if you plan to contest TTXGP? $39k is shockingly cheap for a bike that will put you on top of the podium if your riding ability is high enough. Forget the Empulse TTX. Forget building your own racebike - I'm sure the VT Bolt team has well over $40k in materials if you included their donated gear, and ignore development time spent.

Lightning has had order information up for a little while. I haven't heard about them shipping any customer bikes - but I hope they get orders and start shipping bikes. It would be awesome to see some privateer racers contesting TTXGP at the top level.

[protomech]

One other thing to note..

Freeway energy consumption is more governed by aerodynamics than by peak motor power.

Zero S is rated at 180 Wh/mile. Brammo Empulse is rated at 160 Wh/mile. Lightning claims ~120 Wh/mile.

Compare to gas, where a CBR250R gets ~70 mpg and a CBR1000RR gets ~35 mpg.

Or a Honda Civic gets 32 mpg and a Lamborghini Aventador gets 13 mpg.

That's one of the more exciting aspects of electrics in my opinion .. bigger motors have huge performance potential without paying an efficiency penalty.

[860]

Zero S is rated at 180 Wh/mile. Brammo Empulse is rated at 160 Wh/mile. Lightning claims ~120 Wh/mile.

Right off the bat, let me say that the Lightning is waaaay too much bike for me.  Take my man club card away right now, but that is just wicked way too fast for my limited skills. 

It is going to take me a while to get used to the liters/per 100 kilometer style of measuring energy consumption where lower numbers are better, instead of the miles/per gallon way of measuring where larger numbers are better.

I'm going to do some math pretty much just for myself (this is as good a place to keep it as anywhere)  I pay 12 cents a kWh. Assuming 12K miles a year and 4 dollar premium gas:

Zero S = .18 kWh/mile * 12 cent/kWh = 2.16 cents a mile = 259 dollars/year
Empulse = .16 kWh/mile * 12 cent/kWh = 1.92 cents a mile = 230 dollars/year
Lightning = .12 kWh/mile * 12 cent/kWh = 1.44 cents a mile  = 173 dollars/year

CBR250R = 70 mpg = 5.71 cents a mile = 685 dollars/year
SV650 = 48 mpg = 8.33 cents a mile = 1000 dollars/year
CBR1000RR = 35 mpg = 11.4 cents a mile = 1368 dollars/year
Honda Civic = 32 mpg = 12.5 cents a mile =  1500 dollars/year
Audi S4 = 22.5 mpg = 17.8 cents a mile = 2133 dollars/year
Lamborghini Aventador = 13 mpg = 30.8 cents a mile = 3696 dollars/year

Since I wouldn't be caught dead on a CBR250R on the road, it looks like all the other comparisons would put me significantly ahead each year.

(Of course now that I've bothered with all the math, I realized I could have just used empulsebuyer's calculator...   Oh well.    )

[Deadly Silent Ninja]

But if you can use the Lightning's capabilities? For example, if you plan to contest TTXGP? $39k is shockingly cheap for a bike that will put you on top of the podium if your riding ability is high enough. Forget the Empulse TTX. Forget building your own racebike - I'm sure the VT Bolt team has well over $40k in materials if you included their donated gear, and ignore development time spent.

How much TTXGP pays (if anything) for victory, 2nd, and 3rd place?

If it's a decent amount plus some sponsorship money, the $39K becomes basically an investment... Of course there is much more costs related to racing than just the bike, but it all depends on the paycheck at the end...

[Richard230]

Here is a nice TV news report on the Lightning:

Lightning Motorcycle on CNN Morning News

[protomech]

Here's an interview with Ted Rich at the Long Beach Progressive International Motorcycle Show, December 2011.

World's Fastest Electric Motorcycle

Richard Hatfield talks about Lightning's plans for 2012, including races against gas bikes. Not sure if any of these have happened yet.

He mentioned that he has sample batteries from an R&D company that almost double the 2011 battery Wh/kg.

[protomech]

A&R posts a news blurb with some insights on the forthcoming low-production Lightning streetbike.

* 22 kWh pack is apparently the pack they attempted to run at this year's IOM TT race.
* ludicrous acceleration:
  "I can tell you that the machine has power unlike anything currently being offered to consumers."
  "it really is a rocket ship, even compared to the venerable Mission R that I test rode just last month."
* Mr. Beeler has significant concerns about the challenges Lightning will face as it moves towards production. I think Zero or Brammo could tell them some stories about those production challenges, though the Lightning bike is targeting a hugely different price point and production volume.

[Brammofan]

 though the Lightning bike is targeting a hugely different price point and production volume.

Agreed.  This difference between the Empulse and the Lightning is the difference between serial production and craft production. 

[Richard230]

Here are a couple of nice photos and a few words about the production Lightning:

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/production-version-of-218mph-electric-superbike/21393.html

[FreepZ]

Lightning have a nice looking website (http://www.lightningmotorcycle.com) in which they say:

The bikes are built to order to your specs and start at $38,888. We will also begin production early next year of a line of more affordable street bikes.

I wonder how it will stack up against the Empulse? It would have to be somewhat similar or even slightly better (more range, more speed or less cost) if they are to expect to sell anything. Hooray for competition!

[protomech]

I believe the $39k spec is a 12 kWh battery, 180 kW Remy motor, all the race bits the Lightning race bike comes with.

The Lightning bike is significantly heavier than the Empulse - figure 550-600 pounds with street kit. It also *claims* to have significantly better highway range - 100 miles at freeway speeds, presumably 70 mph. This points to a more aerodynamic design - I wouldn't be surprised if they used the LSR fairings for that range metric. We'll see what the MIC range tests are when and if they perform them.

The Lightning is probably a significantly worse "product" than the Empulse. Charger may or may not be integrated into the bike. It may require more exotic tools to work with, parts that make sense for a one-off race bike but are a PITA for a street bike. Batteries may have not undergone the types of testing Brammo and Zero have done. While Lightning may have put a couple hundred racetrack laps on the bike, that speaks only indirectly to how the bike will hold up over regular street use.

The Lightning is an exotic. It's the 1960s-1970s Ferrari of the bikes, before Ferrari became a lifestyle brand and started producing products. You're buying a well-designed race bike repurposed for street use.

Oh. And it'll leave the Empulse (or just about anything else) for dead in a straight line. Maybe a corner too.

[Brammofan]

It reminds me a bit of the promise of buying a MotoGP bike for street use.  You can go down to your dealer and buy a replica of a MotoGP that is approved for street use - I think this is the Super Sport?  You can't actually buy a true MotoGP bike - they likely run into the high six figures, maybe more, given the one-off prototype nature of these bikes. 

The problem I see with the Lightnings is the same challenge that Brammo and Zero are facing: where do you go when it stops working?  B and Z are slowly fanning out across the world and associating themselves with existing dealerships.  It's a HUGE undertaking.  The early years of Brammo and the Best Buy partnership was a promising "disruption" to the usual establishment of dealer networks, but I think it ended up slowing down the effective (and hopefully, long-lasting) alliances that it needs with dealerships. 

Anyway - I equate the Lightning bike with the Roehr electric motorcycle: http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/17/roehr-motorcycles-releases-the-esuperbike-the-fastest-electric/
Sure, Lightning has a better track record (literally), but the bikes themselves are going to sell, if at all, to a few collectors of motorcycle oddities. I don't think they will ever go into the type of serial production that the Empulse is beginning. 

[Richard230]

My guess it that Jay Leno will have one in his garage very soon.   

[protomech]

eRoehr always bothered me - I think they had bikes available for sale, Hollywood Electrics had an order link up for some time.. but noone was biting.

Maybe because the Empulse concept promised almost double the pack for less than their low-end model. Even after the shipping Empulse prices were revealed, eRoehr was still very expensive for what you got. Still, the specs they claimed were at the upper end of the semi-affordable performance range in 2010.

They introduced a new model in 2011 .. starting to get close to the Empulse specs now. Based on a Hyosung GT650R.
http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2011-roehr-esupersport-preview

$18k, 50 kW PMAC motor, 7.7 kWh battery. 1 kW charger, 7 hours to empty. Claims 100 miles, 100+ mph.

No nibbles. Granted, I doubt they had any dealer network to speak of..

The Empulse R is a better bike. More battery, J1772 3kW charger, much nicer hardware. Price is even higher, at least until the non-R is available. Better dealer network and much better name recognition.. hopefully the outcome is significantly better.