Author Topic: DIY Option  (Read 1429 times)

machone

  • Enertia Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
DIY Option
« on: September 23, 2012, 04:02:30 PM »
Right, I'm fed up with being patient and I've lost confidence in the bikes I used to like the look of. They do not resemble what was at first promised and they are more expensive than they should be. I don't like anything that is available or proven for a variety of reasons.

I've read on the elmoto forum about people(admittedly artists, craftsmen and very clever people) building their own bikes.

Setting my sights low on just my commute(35km one way, flat but good acceleration required and 80kmph steady speed), which battery, motor and controller would you choose to put in an old ICE frame and which frame would you choose? Do you think it is possible at a price cheaper than an Empulse? Obviously my demands are vastly reduced as my sights are lowered to adjust for a home build. :o
Not long now

Brammofan

  • Administrator
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3249
  • Following the momentum of Enertia
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Re: DIY Option
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2012, 04:16:33 PM »
So, since you've been to elmoto you know that they have a large and active community who could answer your questions.
What is your reason, then, for talking about diy here on this forum? If it's just to complain about Brammo and the ever growing disparity between delivery dates, cost, specs, etc., then just do it. No need to frame it as a diy project.
If you want to start up a thread on diy projects, however, this is not the place for it. It's like going onto a Chevy Volt forum and asking advice on how to build an electric car from the frame up.
The Brammoforum Wiki is still active: http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki

machone

  • Enertia Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2012, 04:36:40 PM »
Alright, point taken, I'm off.

People may have read my other posts here whereas I havn't posted on elmoto except to say hello so I thought maybe I wouldn't be dismissed so quickly here as 'just another nutter'.....oh well! :)

It wasn't actually a disguised dig at Brammo. I have moaned openly previously and don't see the point of doing it again. My recent experiences with Agility, which have been similar to those with Brammo(ever changing release dates and teething problems), have left me frustrated with the industry.  I didn't think it was worth repeating.

I was after off the shelf battery and motor choice opinion from people who I know have had a lot of time to ponder! If it ain't welcome, I'll take it elsewhere!
Not long now

craigq

  • Enertia Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 78
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2012, 04:42:36 PM »
At least you posted in the "Off Topic" section  ;)

Zero has some powertrain solutions, pretty much based off of their current offerings, not sure how they're priced though: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/powertrains/

Shinysideup

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2012, 12:49:43 AM »
Alright, point taken, I'm off.

I was after off the shelf battery and motor choice opinion from people who I know have had a lot of time to ponder! If it ain't welcome, I'll take it elsewhere!

I don't think it's the case that your query isn't welcome; rather it isn't relevant to this forum. Elmoto really is much more appropriate for what you're after. Also try http://endless-sphere.com/forums/

I built an electric bicycle and it was a great learning project.
Good luck.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 10:06:20 AM by Shinysideup »

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2012, 12:51:53 AM »
Hard to interpret text over the internet. BF may have been telling you to take a hike, but he may have just been telling you that there are few people here that can really answer your questions. Elmoto really is the best forum here for DIY ebike design, but IMO there's no harm in discussing here. If I'm wrong then please explain what the purpose for the off-topic forum is, because I'm missing it : o

Electric bikes right now are a toss-up between flexibility and reliability. If you buy a pre-packaged bike - a Zero or a Brammo - then you get a well-assembled package, a well-tested powertrain, and often better / cheaper technology than you have access to if purchasing as an individual. You also get some measure of increased reliability, though as we've seen with the Zero controller glitches, well-tested doesn't mean error-free. Because you typically need to use an electric powertrain for 8-10 years to get good use out of it, you need a bike that's reliable for 8-10 years.. and IMO building and designing your own bike won't get you reliability for that period of time.

Building your own bike is great because it gives you the flexibility to build exactly what you want. If you only need 30-40 miles of range but you want 5s 0-60 times, you can build a 10C 4-5 kWh pack that will give you that. If you want to build a LSR bike, you can mod a Zero and do 100 mph or build your own Lightning bike and do 218.

One option might be to buy a used electric bike and replace the controller/motor/batteries, depending on what you want. 70 km = 44 miles, means you should look for a used 4.4+ kWh bike. That pretty much means a used 2012 ZF6 Zero. 5.6 kWh battery pack is rated for 10C burst = 56 kW, reconfigure the battery pack from 18s4p 65v 80Ah to say 24s3p 88v 60Ah or 36s2p 130v 40Ah .. then pick a motor and beefier controller for faster speeds. Once the 2013 bikes come out you should be able to pick one up for cheap. Older Enertia could work, but you'd need to replace controller/battery/motor.

Reconfiguring the battery pack means you need a new BMS and charger. Maybe more trouble than it's worth. Wish they had come with a higher voltage from the factory.

Basically, if you want to build your own bike, you should do it. If you don't particularly want to build your own bike, but the factory bikes aren't cutting it, I really would suggest waiting rather than building your own. They're getting better and better each year.. even if those improvements aren't exactly coming on a predictable schedule.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2012, 08:36:35 AM by protomech »
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/

machone

  • Enertia Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
    • View Profile
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2012, 01:02:27 AM »
Thanks guys.
 
Not long now

WanderLust

  • Empulse Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2012, 01:06:31 PM »
I had a similar sentiment the other day and started looking for electric Ariel Atoms, apparently they did make one! But that was like 5 years ago. That might be something else Brammo could look at in the future...
Something like that would have amazing performance, potentially swapable  batteries, so as battery tech improves it'll be easier to upgrade the batteries.

check out the video http://www.wrightspeed.com/x1.html 2.9 second 0-60

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 06:01:52 PM »
Wrightspeed was a nice idea. Basically shoved a Tesla Roadster powertrain into a Atom chassis. No surprise the thing is blisteringly fast.

Dude ran out of financing during the 2008-2009 meltdown. Pity. I don't know what kind of market there'd be for such a thing - figure ariel atom sales * (tesla roadster sales / lotus elise sales) .. but wow.

Check out the one-off dp1e as well:
http://www.dpcars.net/dp1e/index.htm
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/

Brammofan

  • Administrator
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3249
  • Following the momentum of Enertia
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Re: DIY Option
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 06:09:22 PM »
Brammo was the North American licensee for Ariel. See the Wikipedia page on Brammo for more info. They wanted to build an electric Atom,  but... well, check it out and learn why they decided to build the Enertia, instead.
The Brammoforum Wiki is still active: http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki

Brammofan

  • Administrator
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3249
  • Following the momentum of Enertia
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2012, 01:02:35 PM »
Just saw that Wrightspeed recently got some good news:
Quote
San Jose startup, Wrightspeed, will receive a $5.8 million grant from the California Energy Commission (CEC) for Advanced Vehicle Technology Manufacturing.

(I can't, for the life of me remember the name of that 'effect' where, you hear something for the first time and then start seeing instances of it cropping up around you.  Karma for the person who correctly names this effect.)
The Brammoforum Wiki is still active: http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2012, 02:33:17 PM »
I think that's known as the "riding electric" effect ; ) (starting to see a lot of volts wandering around here..)
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/

Brammofan

  • Administrator
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 3249
  • Following the momentum of Enertia
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2012, 03:26:03 PM »
I think that's known as the "riding electric" effect ; ) (starting to see a lot of volts wandering around here..)

Ha!  Actually, I found it:
Baader-Meinhoff Phenomenon.
Quote
You may have heard about Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon before. In fact, you probably learned about it for the first time very recently. If not, then you just might hear about it again very soon. Baader-Meinhof is the phenomenon where one happens upon some obscure piece of information– often an unfamiliar word or name– and soon afterwards encounters the same subject again, often repeatedly. Anytime the phrase “That’s so weird, I just heard about that the other day” would be appropriate, the utterer is hip-deep in Baader-Meinhof.
The Brammoforum Wiki is still active: http://www.brammoforum.com/wiki

Vibetrippin

  • Empulse Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 139
    • View Profile
Re: DIY Option
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2012, 03:50:41 PM »
Bad Wolf.