Author Topic: TCO Calculator Updated - Lots of New Stuff  (Read 1445 times)

EmpulseRider

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TCO Calculator Updated - Lots of New Stuff
« on: January 09, 2013, 02:04:25 PM »
After some late nights, and going through feedback and feature requests, the Electric Motorcycle  TCO Calculator app has finally been updated. Here are some of the changes:

- Comments can be left at the bottom of the page
- 2013 Zeros models added
- 10% Federal tax rebate check box added
- Battery Life metrics are now tied to editable range field
- Share This Chart feature updated to provide shortened links via bit.ly
- Range drop down menu added (Uses EPA range stats from manufacturer)
- Utah added to state tax incentive drop down... Colorado and a few other states removed :-(
- All known bugs fixed

Be sure to give my app a "like", please :-)
Also, please let me know what ya-all think!

UPDATE: Whoops, Here's the link: http://www.empulsebuyer.com/tcoCalculator.php
Thanks BrammoFan
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 02:41:22 PM by EmpulseBuyer »

Brammofan

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Re: TCO Calculator Updated - Lots of New Stuff
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 02:19:14 PM »
Am I not seeing a link because I'm behind a firewall, or did you forget to add the link?
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protomech

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Re: TCO Calculator Updated - Lots of New Stuff
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 05:20:11 AM »
Here are the four interesting electric models IMO to compare:

* 2013 FX ZF5.7 - $12000 dualsport, 44 hp 260 lbs
* 2013 XU ZF2.8 - $8000 city commuter, 26 hp 200 lbs
* 2013 S ZF8.5 - $14000 naked standard 2-up, 54 hp 350 lbs
* 2013 Empulse - $17000 naked sportbike, 54 hp 470 lbs

Assume the following:
* $0.12/kWh for electricity. +50% over AL's current rate .. probably a good guess at a 6 year average.
* $4.50/gal for gas. Again, my guess at a 6 year average.
* combined city/highway range for electric bikes.
* mpg, wet weight, performance taken from MCN January 2012 Performance Index.

FX is a compelling electric bike. It is much faster than similar weight gas bikes (250 @ 8-12s 0-60) and much lighter than similar power / performance gas bikes (650 dualsport). Suzuki DR-Z400S MSRP $6499 is probably the best comparison @ 34 rwhp, 320 pounds, 0-60 in 6.5s. Comparison here, break-even point 39k miles.

XU I think will largely be bought by city commuters, not sport riders. Honestly the best comparison is probably a scooter .. but let's go with the Honda CBR250R MSRP $3995. The CBR is massively heavier @ 360 pounds .. but there's very little option for a street standard as noone sells a 125cc bike in the US. CBR is quite a bit slower @ 9s 0-60 vs 6s 0-60 .. but CBR top speed is a much higher. Comparison here, break-even point 30k miles. Note that I use city range for the XU as I think this is the target market for the bike, but this barely affects the break-even miles.

S is definitely not a sportbike, but in 2013 it picks up enough power and top speed to elevate it a bit above commuter duty. MCN hasn't reviewed the new Honda CBR500F MSRP $5499, but it's a good comparison point. Again, the CBR is massively heavier @ 420 pounds and down a bit on power @ 47 hp, but 0-60 times are likely similar in the absence of a multi-gear. I'll re-use MCN's rating for the Ninja 500 (64 mpg). Comparison here, break-even point 72k miles.

Empulse is an odd duck in a world of gas bikes. The R has very premium components, but is far down on power relative to similar high-spec gas bikes. The base Empulse is still nicely equipped - well above weight/power contemporaries like the Suzuki 650. It's down a bit on power and up on weight vs something like the Ducati Monster 696 MSRP $9295 (80 bhp, 402 lbs) .. but it's about as close as I can think of. BMW F 800 R may be another option. Comparison here, break-even point 35k miles.

Note that these all are being compared without consideration for range. Once you consider range, the Empusle seems like the best buy versus the competition.

***

The Empulse did better than I thought it might. The 10% federal rebate makes a significant difference, and IMO both the component & tech level, design, and racing pedigree (whatever weight that may hold with you) elevates it to something approaching a premium level with associated premium operating costs. Compare it against a lame-duck Suzuki SV650 and the break-even point grows significantly. I

With that said, the smaller Zero bikes also do very well. Their range is limited, but both bikes are entirely in a class of their own offering quick performance, highway capable top speeds and very light weight. Where the Empulse's performance seems a little bit underwhelming given its high specification level, the Zero bikes perform well above their improved but still somewhat pedestrian specification level. I think the FX will be a rolling advertisement to the advantages of a lightweight electric drivetrain.

A revealing illustration of progress is the comparison to last year's bike, the 2012 S. With the 10% federal credit the break-even point (vs a 2012 Ninja 250R) narrows to 88k miles. Even that is a bit of a stretch - the Ninja 250 is slightly faster from a start, has a notably higher top speed, and weighs little more.

In less than a year Zero has improved range by 10-20%, increased onboard charging speeds, made an available CHAdeMO fast DC charge, doubled power, added standard passenger equipment, added smartphone integration options, significantly improved the brakes once again..
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
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Richard230

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Re: TCO Calculator Updated - Lots of New Stuff
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 11:05:07 AM »
The other thing to consider, when comparing an electric motorcycle with a Ninja 250, is that from what I have read in the past on the mini-Ninja forum is that the bike will likely need a new motor after 50,000 miles.  That tips the financial equation toward electric even more.
current bikes: 2014 14.2 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

protomech

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Re: TCO Calculator Updated - Lots of New Stuff
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 11:48:55 AM »
CB250 would work just as well.

The Zero's longevity has yet to be determined; I think break-even points that far out are hard to argue for. At the end of year 1 I should be down to 80k miles on the break even clock, but I doubt I'll resist the temptation to upgrade that long.
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oml

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Re: TCO Calculator Updated - Lots of New Stuff
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 01:17:44 PM »
Now if you consider pre-year models ... some shops over here sell a "new" zero s 2012 6kwh for ~5500 euros here (~ 7200 USD, but usually a zero costs the same in euros as in dollars). Im veeeery tempted. Thats about the same as for a 250R here.