Author Topic: Charging input ports:  (Read 1054 times)

shayan

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Charging input ports:
« on: October 12, 2016, 05:19:46 PM »
Does anyone know if the Empulse has more than one charging input ports? I just wanted to know if we could integrate the level 1 charger into the bike along with the level 2 charger. That way, we wouldn't have to carry the level 1 adapter all the time and maybe we could charge the bike with both chargers simultaneously.

frodus

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2016, 09:38:17 AM »
Simultaneously won't work, as there's only one 3000W charger onboard. Connecting 2 power sources from potentially different feeds is a recipe for disaster. Use the J1772, or use your proposed mod, not both.

You MAY be able to splice something in, but then you'd have to have a jack for that, and store the cord. Might look into the small L1 chargers that are compact enough to put into a backpack. Something like the TurboCord L1 charger.

shayan

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2016, 03:49:13 PM »
So has no one ever tried upgrading the charger? Level 2 can send upto 6.6kW power as far as i know. So using the same level 2 stations and a faster charger wont we be able to cut the time in half? I am still new to all the electrical/electronic aspect of things. So forgive my ignorance  :)

frodus

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2016, 04:21:49 PM »
It would require a high level knowledge of CAN in order to speak/reply to the VCU (like an ECU in a gas vehicle). The protocol for the Eltek Valere powercharger 3000 is fairly documented, but would the batteries stand being charged at 2x the speed? Is there a shunt inside the Brammo that would cause a fault if you did try to charge them at a higher current? How do you reverse engineer it?

It's a lot more than just connecting the charger to the B+ and B- and letting her rip. There's a lot of "communication" going on between all of the modules. You have the VCU, Display, Charger, Motor controller, Battery Management System Main unit (which connects to each of the 7 battery packs board) as well as an IO module that controls lights, signals, etc.

littlefreak3000

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2016, 07:45:49 PM »
I would love it if someone did the leg work on all this. Also I'd love it if someone could figure out how more cells could be added (sattle bags maybe).

shayan

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2016, 02:10:00 AM »
Right it is not an easy task. The main concern would be the possibility of some sort of a barrier inside one of the components (VCU or the BMS most likely), which would prevent the battery from receiving more power despite that being safe. It maybe there for additional safety or to prevent anyone from customizing the battery/charging components. Nevertheless, its worth a try.

I see some older posts where Athlon has tried to install an additional 3kW battery pack and an additional charger and vtbrammorider has changed some torque and regen settings using a CAN interface.

frodus

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2016, 12:28:24 PM »
Both of them have some CAN knowledge, and the proper software, to make those changes. I don't know what Athlon had to do to have a larger charger, so maybe he'd know better. I completely forgot about that.


shayan

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2016, 01:02:52 AM »
Not sure how far Athlon went with the mod, but some sneak peek into the results would've been great

shayan

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 07:01:52 PM »
Bumping this thread back up.

I posted on http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6781.180
asking evtricity if any Empulse users had used the charger that he had and his response was:
Quote
Hi shayan,

We have sold a double charger to allow a Brammo owner to charge two Brammos simultaneously in conjunction with the existing J1772 onboard charger (so ~7kW DC each bike). However they have had to do the integration themselves to to connect into the Brammo as we don't offer a DC fast charge cable that supports that with stock Brammos as we do with Zeros.

I can get in touch with them if you like and see how they have progressed in configuring that setup.

Not sure who the Brammo owner was and evtricity mentioned that he would follow up with that person on details of how he integrated the charger.
If this can work and not too complicated, i guess this is a possibility.

I also checked with HollywoodElectrics on the diginow supercharger and head back that they did install the charger on an Empulse but was short on details. Though the 6.6kW diginow is much more expensive than the one that evtricity is selling for.

HadesOmega

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2017, 06:39:44 AM »
Cool it would be great to up the charging rate of the Empulse.  I was chatting with a family that was charging their Fiat 500e and went up to see if the 500 made any noise charging and I noticed the charging station buzzing unlike the charging station hooked up to my bike.  It was charging at the full 6kw and I was like hmm that's almost triple what the Empulse is charging at.  If you could triple the charging rate its like the Empulse has a fast charger.

I rode an Energica Eva recently and was talking with the service manager and told him about my story about the Fiat 500e and he said that the charger in the Fiat 500e is probably weighs like 200lbs so its not feasible to put one of those on a motorcycle.  O_o'  guess we'll have to wait for the technology to get smaller some how.  I do know the Energica charges at 3kw though so its got a little beefier charger than the Empulse does and of course it has the Level 3 DC fast charge option.  20kw!
2016 Victory Empulse TT - #139

siai47

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2017, 07:59:48 AM »
The Empulse charger is around 3 KW input.  When you look at the charging status on the speedometer, you are looking at the DC power going into the pack.  This includes all the charger losses and power being used to run accessories like the DC-DC converter.  Higher capacity chargers aren't all that much larger but would be hard to get in a motorcycle.  The old Tesla Model S had a light weight 10 KW charger that sat under the rear seat cushion---a little too wide for the location in the Empulse, but would have fit in a saddlebag :) .

shayan

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2017, 10:42:25 PM »
Cool it would be great to up the charging rate of the Empulse.  I was chatting with a family that was charging their Fiat 500e and went up to see if the 500 made any noise charging and I noticed the charging station buzzing unlike the charging station hooked up to my bike.  It was charging at the full 6kw and I was like hmm that's almost triple what the Empulse is charging at.  If you could triple the charging rate its like the Empulse has a fast charger.

I rode an Energica Eva recently and was talking with the service manager and told him about my story about the Fiat 500e and he said that the charger in the Fiat 500e is probably weighs like 200lbs so its not feasible to put one of those on a motorcycle.  O_o'  guess we'll have to wait for the technology to get smaller some how.  I do know the Energica charges at 3kw though so its got a little beefier charger than the Empulse does and of course it has the Level 3 DC fast charge option.  20kw!

Well, just in case u missed looking at the spec for the double charger (7kW) that's mentioned in that thread:

Double charger:
Two chargers in one case with separate AC input and DC output
Standard AC input socket = 2 x IEC C20
Standard AC current = 2 x 15A
AC input voltage = 85-300V
Standard DC output = 6.6kW - 30A @ 220v
Maximum DC output = 8kW (on request)
Dimensions = 29cm x 18cm x 10cm
Weight = 6kg
Charging time from empty with onboard (useable 10kWh capacity) = <1.5 hours
Double DC fast charger cable included
BYO 2 x IEC C19 15A+ cable for your country

This thing weighs only like 6 kgs. So 200lbs for the fiat 500e might be an exaggeration! And i do agree with you that DC fast charging is the way to go. If hollywood electrics gets enough requests then maybe we can ask them to make a supercharger v2 kit thats compatible with the empulse  ;)

The Empulse charger is around 3 KW input.  When you look at the charging status on the speedometer, you are looking at the DC power going into the pack.  This includes all the charger losses and power being used to run accessories like the DC-DC converter.  Higher capacity chargers aren't all that much larger but would be hard to get in a motorcycle.  The old Tesla Model S had a light weight 10 KW charger that sat under the rear seat cushion---a little too wide for the location in the Empulse, but would have fit in a saddlebag :) .

Right exactly what i was getting to :)
Also most of these modified zero's with superchargers carry the chargers in a saddlebag or a bag on the rearseat. Another reason for that is that the chargers need to be put in a weather proof and a dust proof container.

nunux59

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2017, 04:16:34 PM »
I am on the (slow) way on adding a fast charger to my Empulse R. The thing I need to figure out know is where to hook a Anderson connector to have access to B+ and B-. If you know it, let me know !

I will do it with harvested servers PSU : 1000w 12v , I already have 5 of them and still need to find 4 others. The voltage can be adjusted to 13V (13V x 9 = 117V) and I found a circuit on Endless Sphere to regulate the current. I will first test my diy charger with 2 PSU and LiPo cells to be sure that the current regulator is working well. If it works and if I find 4 other PSU I will test it first with around 1000w in conjunction with the onboard charger and progressively go up to 6000w for 1C charging.

My final goal is to embed this charger in a too case along with 6kw of LiPo.

HadesOmega

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2017, 03:52:13 AM »
Cool good luck.

So how does the Empulse charge the battery?  To my understanding it does a bulk charge when the SOC is low and it as a whole pack.  Then when it fully charged it enters a balance mode and starts balancing the cells?  Kinda like how a lipo charger works? 

So to implement a DC fastcharger (off board charging) you would need to find a way to program the BMS to bypass the onboard charger and charge from the charging station directly?  Does the charging station regulate the voltage or does the BMS do it?  Sorry I'm kind of a noob to EV stuff I'm a 12V guy =P

Would anything be needed to be added to the bike to dc fastcharge at say a charging station?  Obviously a CCS or Chademo connector.  I was looking at the Energica website and it says the fast charger is a $1700 option for the bike.  What could need to be added to the bike for it to cost $1700?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 04:28:14 AM by HadesOmega »
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nunux59

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Re: Charging input ports:
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2017, 04:47:50 AM »
I am not going for DC fast charging (yet). Chademo is a complicated proprietary protocol and Combo CCS is not common yet. My goal is to charge on 22kw and 43kw type 2 chargers. They provide 3 phases of AC at 250V.

The battery is charging in three phases. First phase is the constant current phase. The charger is trying to put 117V but the battery is, let say, 95V so 23V of differences are going in the battery and the internal resistance of the battery determine how much current can go in (Ohm's law). It is generally to much current for the charger and the battery, this is why the charger has to limit the current.

After a while the voltage difference decreases and the current needs decreases also. This is the constant voltage phase where the battery is slowly reaching 100% SOC.

The last phase is the balancing phase. The BMS discharge the the highest cells into the lowest cells to balance them at an est SOC. I guess that phase 2 and 3 are going simultaneously.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2017, 05:39:20 AM by nunux59 »