replacement for Valence u1-12xp?

[nice]

Hi, could this be a replacement for the valence u1-12xp battery?
I found a 3.2V lifepo4 50Ah on aliexpres:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001040962981.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.77cb3c00FQ2DYH&mp=1
It has a Continious Discharge Current of 100A en Max Discharge Current of 300A. Looking at the dimensions (148x115x27mm) : four of them will fit easily in the valence battery case, so i can make a 12.8V 50Ah battery.
Wishfull thinking: should it be possible to use the existing electronics of the valence battery en the BMS of the Enerttia? A complete swap (24 x 3.2V a €25,- each) will cost me €600, that's a steal compared to 6 new LithiumWerks or other packs!

[sunchaser]

I'm not a battery expert by any means, so I can't share any thoughts on the compatibility of these.  I do know that LithiumWerks (formerly Valence) is still selling the U1-12XP.

https://lithiumwerks.com/products/modules/u-charge-xp/

Unfortunately the batteries are $750 US each.  Ouch.  Even if the current U1-12XP was less expensive I would want to confirm with LithiumWerks on the compatibility with the bike.  They may have updated the BMS/software.

I believe that it's also possible to rebuild the existing Valence batteries with replacement cells.  I spoke to a rep at Muller Industries a couple of years ago and was told that it was possible.  Not sure about the pricing.

https://www.mullerindustriesusa.com/

Good luck with your project!

[zshelby]

Hi,

I think this was a great find if the specs match up to reality.  I was curious if you decided get the batteries you found and see how they perform?  I am right now rebuilding a U1-12XP and this would be way cheaper if the batteries seem sound.  The image shows the nickel tabs, but are they threaded underneath for bus bars?  Thanks.

[nice]

Hi, i bought 4 of them to give it a try.
 No thread only nickel tab to connect.
 I found some hopegiving reviews, so fingers crossed.
I’ll keep you informed.

[nice]

Just got 2 of 4 batteries from Aliexpres, i will test 4 of them as a repacement for the valence u1-12xp batteries, see my previous posts. It looks like there are holes underneath the nickeltabs, who knows it are threaded holes for connecting the powerwiring and serial busbars.

[zshelby]

So were the batteries good?  Did they hold a good charge?  Did they meet the dimensions specified?  Did you check if the holes were threaded?  Just curious.  Thanks.

[nice]

Well, i gave it a try! the terminals had no threadholes, just the spotwelded tabs, so i had to solder the wires on the tabs, forgot to mention that one battery had one poor welded tab. i assembled the batteries in the valencebox with 2 3d-printed spacers or filling the gaps, it fitted very well, is connected the serial wiring and bms wiring, inssulated the terminals with the old rubbersheets and kaptontape and closed the box with the valence-cover. Charging went well, the new battery took up to 3,7V for each module, the old 20 batteries modules reached only to 3,3V, should i stop? No, i went on and drove some km with it. Long story short, suddenly my enertia stopped and the electrical system was dead, after walking/pushing my enertia back home it was time for some research: the poor welded tab was burned away, all the others were ok. The bms circuitboard is scrap now. So now im planning what to do next. I think i order one new batterie, rebuild again and give it another try.
 

[zshelby]

Hey,

Sorry to hear about the burn out.  3.7v is kinda high for LifePO4 (nominal is 3.3).  I hope they are really LifePO4 and not another type of Lithium-Ion.  I think 3.7 x 4 might stress out the balance board as it is really picky with voltages. I had to repair a U1-12XP for my Enertia that had a prior botched repair where one bank of batteries was completely dead.  The balance board had the blinking red, so I took it out and connected it to 4 new LifePO4 18650 cells to test and when I checked the diagnostics, 2 of the cells that had 3.3V came up as 0V in the diagnostic.  So I had a busted balance board (it sounds like you are saying you do too).  To replace the board, I ordered a U27-12XP board to replace it from:

https://www.yousun.org/product/valence-u27-12xp-lifepo4-battery-balance-board

This is the same board as the U1-12XP, but it is the modern one from the green batteries and doesn't fit the battery box well (I mounted mine externally in a fly tackle box).  I think the batteries you got are so small you should have the room needed to mount internally.  Once I programmed the right battery number from the diagnostic program, it worked like a charm, no different from the original balance board.

Anyway, not sure if this helps any, but out of curiosity, what did you use for your bus bars/wires?  It looks like they were soldered, but I can't tell what to?  Thanks.

[nice]

Hey, euhm, I could be wrong but Iwas thinking that the max voltage of a lifepo4 cell is 3,65V and the min. voltage is 2,5V, nominal voltage is 3,2V, so max 3,6V..3,7V after a full charge should be fine....Fot the busbars i used 10mm2 (AWG8) copper wire with a copper connector which i soldered  on the nickeltab, from the start i didn't like the solderconnection, but that was the only way to connect. the wiring did fine, the nickeltab did not. Now im looking for a company who can laserweld (less heat) an alu M8 stud on the Alu connectorsurface of the battery, hoping nothing will explode .  Question: how did you make the connection between battery and your PC with the diagnosticsoftware, i have the valence diagnostic software and an usb to 485 adapter but i haven't been able to connect to the battery, can you provide some details about how to connect? Thanks

[jazz999]

Any updates on this?

[nice]

I ordered 24x EVE 50Ah prismatic cells in China. Im for 90% sure these cells will be fully functional and add some extra range to my Enertia. Based on the test with 4 new cells (build in one 12xp batterycase) i can conclude that: 4 cells fit in a Valence 12xp casing with closed lit , these cells function with the build-in valence bms, these cells can be charged with the onboard charger, so.... what can go wrong? Yeah 1000 things, i know....i

[biohazard]

How is this going?
Still waiting on the batteries to arrive from china?
I am considering doing the same replacement with the EVE cells when I have money to do so.

[nice]

Finally, after 4 months of waiting; i received my prismatic-packs from china! No damage, a bit undercharged about 11..12v, balance pretty good. Now i am charging and balancing each pack and after that i will do a capacity test, a previous test with my testpack showed that these packs have more than 50Ah capacity, final result was about 53Ah with a 10A CC load.

[sunchaser]

Thanks for sharing your progress on the battery project.  It looks like it definitely has potential. 

[jazz999]

This is pretty cool.  My enertia is now dead.  I would like to find someone to rebuild my packs and the cost.  Thanks