Author Topic: Electric BMWs (Read 2323 times)

Richard230 · « **on:** February 22, 2011, 11:52:05 AM »

It appears that BMW is finally jumping into the EV market and will be coming out with an electric maxi-scooter and other electric vehicles. This has the potential to really give the EV market some spark, considering their reputation in the public's eye for pushing the vehicle technical envelope. Naturally, don't expect any of their EVs to be very affordable for most of us. Read about them here:

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news--general-news/bmw-ibikes-in-the-pipeline/17353.html

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/bmw-scooters-confirmed/17349.html

Kelly Olsen · « **Reply #1 on:** February 22, 2011, 07:00:07 PM »

That concept C scooter is pretty cool looking.The more in the mix, the better for the entire e-bike industry and the consumers.

Richard230 · « **Reply #2 on:** July 01, 2011, 04:56:15 PM »

Here is the latest press release from BMW regarding their electric maxi-scooter concept. They can keep the paint job as far as I am concerned. Read about it here:

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/bmw-reveals-electric-scooter/18458.html

Gavin · « **Reply #3 on:** July 01, 2011, 09:11:34 PM »

Paint job is camo to hide details....

I would easily consider buying that bike...2 passengers, likely has some storage...nice wind protection....

Better hurry up Brammo

That BMW is likely to be more expensive than any Brammo...but a two seated maxi scooter that is 100% electric is pretty tempting as a city and suburban commuter...

Gavin

protomech · « **Reply #4 on:** July 03, 2011, 08:30:33 AM »

Lots of press-speak in that PR.. no surprise.

What it actually says:

* Acceleration competitive with a 600cc maxi-scooter: 0-100 km/h 7-8s => likely 30+ kw. vmax likely 130-160 km/h = 80-100 mph, but range will suffer.
* 100 km+ range => 6+ kwh battery.
* < 3 h to fully recharge. EU can do 230v / 12A = say 2.5kw max into the battery => battery < 7.5 kwh. US 110v charge times will be 5-6h, 3h with a 230v charge option (J1772 please!)
* Chassis-mounted engine with chain direct drive to the rear wheel.
* Kinetic energy recovery, BMW optimistically claims 10-20% range improvement. Still a very nice technical feature. May point to having a battery on the smaller end of the 6-7.5kwh range. Possibly even lower, say 5.5 kwh.
* DC-to-DC converter for 12V electronics. I believe Brammo and Zero both use a DC-to-DC converter as well.
* Motor controller and charge controller are liquid-cooled, battery is air-cooled. Motor *may* be liquid-cooled as well, PR is ambiguous.

What we don't know is pricing, release date, or how close to production-intent the prototype is.

Richard230 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 03, 2011, 08:55:40 AM »

Protomech, I think you missed the part about the motor driving a rubber belt that is connected to the chain final drive. I found that interesting and I wonder what that is about.

Regarding pricing and a release date, BMW tends to show off these prototypes fairly shortly before they are released to the public. I would guess that you are seeing a pre-production model. But I suspect this e-scooterl will show up in Europe at least a year or two before it hits the U.S. My guess about pricing would be between $15 and $20K U.S.

Richard230 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 03, 2011, 05:11:44 PM »

Read reading the press release for the scooter again I note that it says: The secondary drive consists of a toothed belt from the electric machine to the belt pulley mounted coaxially on the swinging fork pivot with drive pinion. From here, power transmission occurs via roller chain to the rear wheel.

My guess is that the primary reason for this design is to eliminate the chain slack problem as the swing arm goes up and down by having the chain counter shaft sprocket rotating around the swing arm pivot. BMW used this design on their defunct G450X off-road model. Having a primary and secondary drive system may also allow them to up-gear the rear drive so that they can reduce the final drive's rear wheel sprocket size. Plus, it allows BMW freedom to locate the motor further away from the swing arm pivot, at perhaps a better location for their vehicle design.

protomech · « **Reply #7 on:** July 03, 2011, 07:55:25 PM »

$20k USD is insane. I wouldn't be surprised to see prices of $15k, and hope to see $12k.

At $15k the scooter is only a marginal threat to the Enertia Plus or the Zero S. At $12k I'd think about it.

Richard230 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2011, 09:42:54 AM »

Quote from: protomech on July 03, 2011, 07:55:25 PM

$20k USD is insane. I wouldn't be surprised to see prices of $15k, and hope to see $12k.

I take it you are not a regular customer of BMW motorcycles or cars - or anything else made by that company.

The BMW "roundel" is worth at least a 25% premium compared with similar brands selling similar products.

protomech · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2011, 11:50:06 AM »

No, I'm not a BMW owner; my lay understanding was their bike markup wasn't as high.

Ex:

Yamaha R1: $13590
BMW S1000 RR: $13950
Kawasaki ZX-10R: $13799

Suzuki V-Strom 650: $7499
BMW G 650 GS: $7350
BMW F 650 GS: $9195
Kawa KLR 650: $6149

The G 650 may be closer to the KLR (650 single) and the F 650 may be closer to the V-Strom (650 twin), which does look like a larger markup. I'm not really familiar with those bikes, so I may be well off.

Class-leading maxi-scooters:
Yamaha TMAX 500: $8590
Suzuki Burgman 650: $8690
Honda Silverwing 582 ABS: $9099

The BMW maxi-scooter has ~~three~~four things that really stand out over the Enertia Plus:
* 230v charging, likely 2kw+
* more powerful (?), liquid-cooled (?) motor
* regen braking, nominal 10-20% range extension
* two-up riding, this is pretty big; you won't do any touring of course, but fantastic for riding around campsites or whatnot

I imagine the ranges will be very similar. Enertia Plus likely gets 60 mi/100 km at 40-45 mph, 40-45 mi/70 km at 55-60 mph. If BMW is listing the 100 km range at 100 km/h then it must be much slippier in the wind or must have a much larger battery (8+ kwh).

Add $2k for the extra features over the 2011 Enertia Plus, add +20% for roundel markup. You're still talking only $13200.

I stand by the assertion that $20k is out-right insane for a 6 kwh scooter, and $15k is a bit loony. BMW or no : )

Richard230 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 04, 2011, 05:42:03 PM »

Here is more information about BMW’s new e-scooter, including photos of its guts and two videos showing the scooter on the road and also showing a diagram of how the power train works. The last photo in the “gallery section” (first link below) shows the mechanical components and labels them. The second link contains the two videos.

That paint job might be camouflage, but I suspect someone at the factory is trying to be cute and has gone a little overboard, in my opinion.

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/bmw-motorrad-concept-vehicle-bmw-e-scooter/#4268673

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/07/04/bmw-motorrad-e-scooter-concept-gets-detailed-w-videos/

As far as the price of the scooter, we will see. But as someone who has owned 8 BMW motorcycles over the past 25 years, I am accustomed to sticker shock. BMW's current pricing strategy, with the sole exception of the G650GS, is to bring the bikes to the U.S. packed with additional stuff, like ABS, heated grips, instrument computer, electronic suspension, tire pressure monitor, traction control, center stand, chrome mufflers and other such farkles, that inflate the showroom prices substantially, compared to the advertised "list price" for the base model. As an example, my 2007 R1200R had an advertised base list price of of just under $13K, but cost over $18,000 by the time I got it out the door.

Gavin · « **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2011, 09:04:09 PM »

Nice videos...seems like BMW has put quite a bit of work anr research and time and money into this scooter...

Maxi scoots do pretty well in Europe and I could see BMW releasing this fairly quickly.

Gavin

Brammofan · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:58:26 AM »

We've got some smart guys on this forum. Thanks for your insightful analysis. The scooter vs. motorcycle design choice is yet another driver of a consumer's decision about what to buy. Not easy to quantify but I'm sure there are some statistics on it, somewhere.

Gavin · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2011, 10:09:24 AM »

Pros: 2 up is nice. BMW name is respected. Many dealerships. Scooters tend to have some under seat storage (though it looks to be minimal in this design...definitely no helmet under seat). Good wind blocking and element protection. No engine straddling---i commute to work and like not straddling an engine...though not really an issue with electric---no oil and such, though an exposed chain does get some oil here and there vs the enclosed scooter type body.

Cons: BMW is expensive. Repairs and service at a BMW dealership can be expensive. Scooters are not considered as cool as motorcycles.

Lots of pros, a few cons...it comes down to personal choice.

I like the Plus a lot, but if Brammo made a two up scooter that looked like the Yamaha T-Max, well I would be very very tempted to go Brammo scooter

Gavin

mmmm, storage....i am a sucker for some underseat storage...keeps the bike lean with a nice CoG, yet lets you carry some crap and hide your helmet.

Gavin · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:21:37 AM »

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/07/06/bmw-motorrad-e-scooter-concept-revealed-w-video/#aol-comments

BMW is getting some more press on this...wonder if that will spur them on to actually making them?

Gavin

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