Author Topic: MiniMotoSx results.  (Read 2099 times)

FreepZ

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MiniMotoSx results.
« on: May 09, 2011, 12:50:10 AM »
The 2011 MiniMotoSx race is done, and some results are available on their website.  Sadly, I didn't see much mention of Brammo over there. I did see a paragraph about the Gas versus Electric race:

Quote
In the Gas Versus Electric battle, the Gas bikes were given a head-start, which proved insurmountable and Shawn Rhinehart won on a Honda CRF150. Jamie Lanza was closing fast on his Zero when he was involved in a big crash trying to get into second overall. Jay Maloney was the second gas powered bike across the line followed by Blake Mitchell. Blake Mitchell was the first Electric bike across the line followed by fellow Zero pilots Chris Green and Jamie Lanza.

Looks like Zero swept the electric field. Does anybody have news about how well Brammo did (besides not being one of the top 3 electrics?)
Richard #935 #595 #44

Richard230

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2011, 09:56:13 AM »
Whatever happened, I hope it wasn't due to the new transmission/power train that they were testing.
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

emotofreak

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2011, 04:47:49 PM »
I attended the race and here is the scoop.

The Brammo MX bike ran practice and qualifying laps in the 42-44 second range. The Zero's were in the 40-42 second range and I believe set the fastest lap of the event. The Brammo minibike entry only ran one practice session and did not return.

In my opinion, the Brammo looked underpowered and had an obvious disadvantage accelerating and coming out of corners. I commend Brammo for the IET, but all the gears in the world won't make up for a lack of
power.

In the race itself, Chris Keefer (brammo rider) t-boned one of Zero's hard in the very 1st corner, knocking them both down. I don't know if it was on purpose but it was bad form any way you slice it. The zero's were ripping fast with Jamie Lanza (top qualifier) just flying past everyone like they were in slo-mo. He got wrapped up with the 2nd place gas bike and went down hard. All the Zero's went down due to collisions with the gas bikes except for Blake Mitchell who finished 3rd overall and took top honors for the electric class. Chris was lapped by all the Zero's despite his blatanty obvious attempts to block them.

Again, I am proud of brammo for pushing the envelope and trying new tech. With more power, a better rider, and more practice and testing, they should do well. I would love to see an electric only class filled with Zero's, quantya's and brammos.

There is some great video I have seen and hopefully it will get published soon.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 04:54:45 PM by emotofreak »

Liv2xplore

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2011, 10:10:00 PM »
Ah well, thanks for the info. It was pretty quick from inception to race. I can see changes that will make it a more competitive bike with greater power and experiance in practice with the bike.
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emotofreak

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2011, 07:36:44 PM »
As promised...


Main (from the stands)


Main (from Trevors GoPro)


1st Practice


2nd Practice


More Practice

Gavin

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2011, 09:28:48 PM »
Nice to see Zeros side of the race...perhaps we'll see brammo's side next.

Gavin

Domenick

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2011, 08:18:04 AM »
Jamie Lanza was just amazing in that first clip. I give him the moral victory.

Speaking of morals...2nd clip (Trevor cam main) @2:35. Ouch!

After that I couldn't tell if I was watching a motocross race or a hockey game.


Another thing, I realize Blake Mitchell raced on a Zero but it lists him as also having finished 3rd on a Honda.





Gavin

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2011, 08:59:28 AM »
Yeah, after the massive take down at 2:35 on the helmet cam, well the Brammo rider was either hurt or riding scared. I didn't see him as "blocking" at the end as much as riding very cautious and even at one point slowing down and waving trevor to pass him....basically saying, "hey you crazy mo-fo, you almost killed me back there...I want you in front of me from now on"...which was the right call as Trevor took himself out with another big crash right before the finish and the Brammo rider went around him.

That said, the T-bone at the start was mostly the Brammo riders fault...and that might of ticked off Trevor leading to the 2:35 take down...or it could have just been an accident.

The T-bone was also partly the track lay out fault too...horrible set up....I only watched a few races on the u-stream, but every race had crashes either in the tunnel turn or in the turn onto the track...massive crashes before even hitting the actual race course inside the arena is just bad layout. To avoid the t-bone the Brammo rider would have had to come to a complete stop and let 3 riders pass...and he should have done that...but what racer wants to completely stop before even entering the track and let other riders get in front? Still he should have. So bad layout and driver error.

The up side of the T-bone is that we got to see the Brammo bike from Trevor's helmet cam (all the videos linked to are from Zero, so they focus, rightly so, on Zero riders and you really don't get any know idea how the Brammo bike rides from the videos except the helmet cam video).

We see that the Brammo and the Zero are pretty even in speed. We see that the Zero is maybe just a bit faster. Which makes sense. They have been making their bikes longer, raced them much much more and their riders have had a lot of time on their bikes. Zero has really worked long and hard on their bikes and it shows. They are nice off road electric bikes....heck they are really nice off road bikes period.

It takes Trevor about 1 1/2 minutes to catch the Brammo rider and then he really takes the Brammo rider out HARD. You see the Brammo rider just laid out on the track and we never see him ride hard again after that.

Now Brammo does need to make a decision. I don't know the Brammo rider. I don't know the Zero rider. I don't know just how good they are.

But if Brammo likes their rider and he is a good rider and was riding hurt at the end, well I might use him again. But if he was riding scared at the end, well you can't ride these type of rides scared...it is just dangerous to everybody. That said, hell I couldn't ride that track even with nobody else on the track. I would crash 18 times in each lap while going 5 mph. So I'm not downing the Brammo rider or the Zero rider...these races are set up for crashes and the riders have to go all out and be right on the edge of out of control...and I admire them and know I could never ever ride like them.

Second point...does Brammo do this race again? I wouldn't unless there was a change or two. Electric bike race only or all bikes leave at the same time. With these races you are much safer and much more likely to do well if you get the lead. Starting out 10 seconds behind the gas bikes almost guarantee that you will A) not win and B) will be in the middle of a ton of riders who will crash into you. So either all electric race or all take off at the same time....also have the start not have the crazy 120 degree turn to get onto the track that basically ensures that people get t-boned.

Still I'm sure it was a good learning experience for Brammo. An expensive, painful learning experience.

I wish Quantya had been there as they are last years electric champ...but it looks like they made a good call by not going.

Gavin
« Last Edit: May 11, 2011, 09:03:22 AM by Gavin »

Gavin

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2011, 12:30:33 PM »
Hopefully the larger track Brammo is racing at next will let the shifty shine...



seems better suited to the Brammo...and at least we will know if Brammo has a power issue or not. This track will allow more speed and hopefully a few less crashes.


Glen Helen Raceway will host the Monster Energy Grand Prix of the USA on the 15th May weekend.


Gavin

BrammoBrian

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2011, 04:13:26 PM »
Funny how two people can watch the same race and come to different conclusions.  I'll try to add some additional insights:

1. Kris Keefer is a very experienced and well respected rider.
2. There was a Turn 1 crash in just about every race and Kris was on the receiving end of that from the Zero riders in the practices as well.
3. The take out of Kris at 2:35 was scary to watch in real life - I thought he was seriously hurt as he went down HARD. 
4. After the take down, he just rode around looking for that rider.  When he caught up to him, he rode around blocking him to ruin his race as well.  He was pissed after the race. 
5. The bikes were experiencing a motor controller issue when the bikes were airborne, resulting in the power needing to be turned down to avoid a potentially dangerous scenario. 
6. A full sized MX bike has no place on a Mini-Moto course.  Definitely our mistake to put one on it. 

Congratulations to Zero for "owning" us and they did exhibit some impressive performance and skilled riders.  I think results may be very different on a real track though... we'll have to wait and see.   

Gavin

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2011, 05:23:21 PM »
A crazy sport. Think about it, the sport allows a rider to take out another rider, hard and looks like on purpose, and allows him to keep riding without penalty. The sport also allows the other rider to stay on the course to purposely mess with the first riders race...like I said, crazy sport.

I guess it would be hard to judge what is and isn't on purpose so they just let anything go....about 2 steps away from rollerball ( the cool 70's one with James Caan).

I did think the course was kinda tiny for this size bike, but I really don't know enough about the sport. I think both Zero and Brammo will do better on a larger outdoor course like this weekend.

Glad nobody got seriously hurt in that race.

Gavin

mykb13

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2011, 09:27:24 PM »
I've always said the worst thing about arena-cross is the number of tight turns!  STOP-TURN-GO-STOP-TURN-GO.  Although it's easier for spectators to see the whole track up close, it doesn't make for "pretty" racing.  Give me a wide open track with flowing corners any day of the week!  Block passes occur in road racing and motocross, but for the indoor tracks, block passes too often result in crashed riders.  It looks like "dirty" racing, but all riders are equal and can do the same thing.  Often it's just a matter of being lucky.  A good start and getting out in front early is too important if you ask me.

The "lucky" rider rarely wins a road race, but often wins an arena-cross race!  Don't get me wrong, good riders often get out in front and avoid the carnage.  I'm just saying that a lucky rider who stays out of the wrecks will win way more arena-cross races than road races or motocross races.

My .02 cents

Domenick

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2011, 10:21:07 AM »
Hopefully the larger track Brammo is racing at next will let the shifty shine...



seems better suited to the Brammo...and at least we will know if Brammo has a power issue or not. This track will allow more speed and hopefully a few less crashes.


Glen Helen Raceway will host the Monster Energy Grand Prix of the USA on the 15th May weekend.


Gavin

Are Brammo racing at Glen Helen? I has assumed it was a promotional appearance.

Gavin

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Re: MiniMotoSx results.
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2011, 11:35:47 AM »
I thought they were racing...but I could so very easily be wrong...a promotional appearance makes the most sense...but I really hope they are racing...the course should set up for them much better than in Vegas at the mini course...

But perhaps they need a bit more time to get it all right before racing again...Vegas was a tough and expensive lesson.

Gavin

Gavin

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