Where do you go now and what do you get charged for regular maintenance?

[MichaelJ]

You are correct I do have a white Empulse R and my bike and I were at that event at XXX Root Beer.  Did seeing my bike in person ignite the spark that led to your purchase? 

That, the native L2 charging, the awesome EBoz color scheme, and the anticipation of seeing two in the same place at the same time.    I was hoping to meet you again at another SEVA event.  Have you heard that the next XXX diner gathering will be May 8th?

Fortunately the work they are preforming, swapping out two battery modules, is covered under the battery warranty.  I am very happy that they extended that warranty from 2 years to 5. 

That's great news!  It would be quite a test of faith to be presented with the bill for such a significant replacement.

I will ask them what the out-of-pocket expense would have been.  $1,000? $2,000?

Looking forward to the quote, just to know what you avoided having to pay.

My understanding is that the dealership sends Polaris the log data from the bike and an individual (yes only 1 person) is responsible for diagnosing the issues and then tells the dealer what they need to order to perform the repair.  I am not sure exactly how much contact they have with Brammo but I do know that the battery modules were shipped from Brammo in Oregon.

Glad to hear that the parts were available at all!  In hindsight it makes sense that Brammo would be more likely to carry spare Brammo parts than Victory, just as we would be likely to expect Victory to have more Empulse TT parts than Brammo.

I received a call on Friday letting me know that the new(maybe refurbished) batteries are in the bike and after a successful test ride everything is back to normal and it is ready for pick-up.... The smile under my helmet will be especially  large on Tuesday.

Congratulations!

Tuesday morning, 2 months after they received the bike from  Seattle E-bike

Did Seattle E-Bike happen to offer any explanation for handing the bike over to Victory?

MichaelJ:
It will be interesting to hear what the final cost of your 6,000K service will be.

You've been so forthcoming about your situation; I'll be sure to update the thread with what they tell me.

*It could be justifiable for $300 dollars worth of labor for changing the front suspension oil and repacking the steering head bearings.  Those are time consuming tasks.

It doesn't sound like you are interested in any DIY

Why does this thread read like I'm an object of pity here?     Isn't part of the appeal of electric vehicles that they require less maintenance?  I'm not mechanically inclined.  I'm happy to leave the wrenching to a professional who will have the correct tools, skills, and fluids on hand rather than cluttering my garage with tools and fluids I'll rarely use--only to end up scratching my head wondering how to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.


$300 for 2-3 hours of labor, not including parts and fluids feels like a fair price for this work but $600+ feels steep for every 3,000 mile service appointment, even if it only represents about twenty cents per mile.  Electricity to charge the battery costs only 1.1 cents per mile.  Why should the cost of maintaining an electric vehicle be twenty times the cost of fueling the vehicle?  (I know, I know, your answer is going to be "because you don't do it yourself" or "it can't be helped because electricity costs so much less than gasoline and electric motors are so much more efficient than ICE.")


I do appreciate the advice given here to find a trustworthy local non-electric motorcycle mechanic for the non-electric maintenance.

[Auslander]

Disclaimer first: I have an Enertia +, and have nothing to add relevant to cost of service.  So, feel free to skip the rest, as it's mostly an op-ed piece on local service in the PNW.

What I can say, for those riders in the general Seattle area:
- I had an absolutely awful experience with Seattle E-Bike.  My service was delayed because of a fire in their shop (which still has me wondering what may have gotten smoke damaged, since apparently the dashboard unit isn't sealed), but neglecting that, my bike was handed back to me in horrendous condition (6" scratch on top plastic, among others, front tire pressure well below safe level, greasy handprints everywhere, headlight pointed sky-high, rather shoddy workmanship in general, the work to be performed was done, but not tested, and the bike had the same problem when I received it back).  I have a thread on that if anyone wants to search for it, but you don't want them laying a greasy hand or a sharp, pointy wrench on or anywhere near your bike.  Cannot caution anyone enough.

- I next went to Lynnwood Motoplex.  It's a bro shop.  Like, motocross bros, mostly.  This isn't a bad thing, I'm just used to an awesome BMW dealer that treats customers and bikes with priority, nothing's rushed, eveything's done right.  Goal: Rebuild forks (Marzocchi, shouldn't be too hard) because seals were leaking.  Delay in receiving parts (back ordered, I think?) but I cannot fault them entirely, as my bike model is the most orphaned of the lot.  Work was performed, I'm happy.  They did what was expected, and didn't damage my bike in the process.  I received a call several weeks later, they wanted to confirm my VIN since Polaris wasn't showing it in their system.  Maybe I'm too orphaned, but it's where Brammo sent me so it shouldn't have been an issue.  It does seem they had trouble communicating with Polaris, since they were trying to get reimbursed for warranty work.  I saw the disconnect, but after the fact, not during.  From what I saw and heard, the shortcoming is on the part of Polaris, and not Lynnwood Motoplex.  <-- Note: I am not associated with them in any way, yadda yadda.

- Re: Fork rebuild at local Ducati shop.  The two BMW dealers in Seattle are owned by the same person/group/corp.  When I had my BMW in for service (to un-f*** the half-ass work Lone Star/Austin TX did to it) they mentioned they were acquiring the local Duc dealer(s?) as well.  This is of concern, as my BMW came back to me with the same problem it had before (seeing a problem here?) even when I told them what I was sure was wrong.  I called up after riding home, and was told that the tech felt it was "running normal for a bike of that vintage".  It's a '99, and no, no it was not at all running proper.  This is obviously *not* the awesome BMW dealer I referenced above.  I eventually found an indy BMW mechanic in the area (PM if you want/need their name for Beemer service, I'm trying to not make this an advertisement) and yeah, it now runs like the proper beast it was meant to be.  RideWest (or, as I've heard some refer to it, RideWorst) really did an entirely neglectful job of listening to the customer, and their techs there appear to be rather green and ill-informed and overall just not trained well, *at all*.  I spent close to 2 decades spoiled by an absolutely amazing BMW dealer in SoCal, after Austin and Seattle I'm not sure which is the anomaly, as BMW dealers aren't supposed to be so rank-amateur about handling things.  Anyway, point to all this: Exercise caution if you're considering a Seattle-area Ducati dealer, as they're tainted by the same ownership as the BMW dealer here.  I don't want to spend a dime at either BMW dealer and have taken to ordering parts for my BMW from out of state on principle.  That. Bad.

At this point, my bike's almost paid off, and I'm just hoping that someone's around to supply batteries in a few years when they're due for replacing.

[Richard230]

Just as a comment regarding dealers: I have noticed that my BMW/Triumph dealer seems to be having a tough time finding well qualified technicians to work on their bikes. Motorcycles (and cars, for that matter) nowadays are becoming very complicated and you need a lot of technical knowledge to work on them. But many of the older mechanics are retiring (or being burned out by the day-to-day pressure of the flat-rate pay system) and the new generation is not as interested in getting their hands dirty as they used to be back in the day. Plus, they are being squeezed by the dealers, who are cutting back on their salaries, while raising shop rates at the same time.  This likely has to do with the cost of keeping employees around due to government employee benefit and auto business regulations. Also the cost of constantly training technicians to work on the latest motorcycle models and electronic systems that change every year can get pretty expensive and time-consuming. 

To add insult to injury, motorcycle shops are closing faster than than new ones are opening around here.  It is getting to be a real tough business to make money in. It requires a lot of initial and ongoing investment and the overhead keeps increasing every year. With the new generation coming out of the barn not wanting to get their hands dirty, finding intelligent and competent motorcycle technicians willing to work at relatively low wages for the skills involved is getting to be tough. 

My BMW dealer has signs posted asking for applications for technicians and service writers, which is interesting as they seemed to have enough staff last year.  Kind of makes me wonder where they all went to? I bet that anyone who really knew their stuff regarding electronic drive systems is working for the local Tesla, Nissan or European auto dealers that are now introducing EVs into their lineup.

Its a tough business and I believe that some motorcycle shop owners and managers are becoming somewhat callous when it comes to their customers. Many of the owners own multiple shops and only visit them to collect their proceeds. The manufacturers concentrate only on sales, but they also need to start thinking about after-sales service too, or things will slowly start to unravel, leaving just a few mega-shops open in urban areas, while shops in the backwoods get boarded up.  Things are not what they used to be when I started riding in the early 1960's.   

[MichaelJ]

Brief update, nearly one month later:  I have not heard back from Lynnwood Motoplex yet after visiting them in person last month and phoning them my VIN per their request.


I am glad to see on a different thread, http://brammoforum.com/index.php?topic=3237.0, that Brammo and some service centers still stand behind their customers.


P.S.  For those of you in the Seattle area (e.g. Auslander, +progress-), I look forward to seeing you at the XXX Root Beer restaurant in Issaquah tomorrow for an EV show hosted by the Seattle Electric Vehicle Association.  Details at https://driveelectricweek.org/event.php?eventid=556.

[MichaelJ]

Update!


I finally got a hold of Kirk, a Lynnwood Motoplex service associate, on the phone last week and made a service appointment for May 30th.  Yes, this is Memorial Day weekend, but I do have a LEAF to keep my commute all electric while the Empulse is in the shop.


The dreaded $600 is now being blamed on the cost of ~5 hours of labor, and $100 is the new estimate for parts.  This doesn't include whatever is necessary to address the "GET SERVICE V78" message (a button-sized battery for the real-time clock maybe?) that just appeared on my dashboard today, and new tires to replace the ones that are losing traction under heavy braking and in the wet.


From other threads on this forum, it seems that Pilot Road 4s are the way to go for better wet and dry grip and tire life, and that 2 years/6,000 miles is about the right lifespan for the stock Avon tires.

[Shinysideup]

I think you'll be very pleased with the PR4's, both in wet performance and in lifespan.

[Adan]

I also have the "Get Service V78" message, which is annoying because I'm trying to sell my Empulse and having that message on constant display isn't a selling point (even if it's just a clock failure).

I'm selling because my office moved over near the ferry building and my employer subsidizes the ferry ride.  As much as I've enjoyed commuting on the Empulse, the ferry from Larkspur is a better way to go.

PR 4's have been great for me.  I can't remember exactly when I replaced them but both tires have at least 7,000 miles and are not done yet.

[MichaelJ]

Good news.


The 6,000-mile service at Lynnwood Motoplex is complete, and the bike now has Pilot Road 4 tires, which I feel much more confident riding on.


Some issues cropped up. 


Extra Time:


Fearing I'd suffer a repeat of +progress-'s weeks of delays, I got them to agree  that I could pick up the bike one week after dropping it off.  As the day before pickup loomed, I called to confirm that the bike would be ready, but they said the technician might have to rush to finish it in time.  I didn't want them to screw it up by hurrying, so I gave them one more week, and indeed it was done by that time.


They were very sorry, but grateful that their most experienced technician could have this extra time to learn from the bike and use this knowledge to train others.  They did not charge extra for this additional time.


Extra Work:


During the first week, they said they found a fork leak.  Unfortunately, I have no way to prove it did or didn't.  So that meant extra cost for the parts and labor...and peace of mind.  Sure, I could suspect misdirection and evil intent, but I can't prove it, either.


What changed:


The good news is that the new tires make me feel significantly more confident in turns.  Maybe the old tires were squared off, so leaning used to feel awkward.


Another piece of good news is that although the GET SERVICE V78 message was still present on the dash when I took the bike home, it was gone the next day and the real-time clock correctly remembered the time I'd set the night before.  (Kirk from the shop said that it could take as long as *several hundred miles* of riding after service for the GET SERVICE V78 message to go away.)


The bad news is that the cooling fan after a ride sounds a little rougher than before, like the rotor is off balance.  I'm not talking about the full-speed fan heard right after plugging in to recharge, which still sounds the same as before.


Another piece of bad news is that the shift lever is now too high.  They must have taken it apart as part of the maintenance and then didn't return it to the original position.  I've figured out how to adjust it, but haven't adjusted it enough to set it back to the way it was yet.




In the end, the 6,000-mile service + forks + new tires ran over $1,000.  That's way over the price of the electricity to move it that distance.  Sigh.  Riding electric is so efficient that everything else about the cost of ownership feels awful by comparison.

[kingcharles]

The bad news is that the cooling fan after a ride sounds a little rougher than before, like the rotor is off balance.  I'm not talking about the full-speed fan heard right after plugging in to recharge, which still sounds the same as before.

That's the water pump you are talking about making more noise??

Some time ago I had a water leak in the radiator and one of the symptoms was a noisy water pump.
So maybe check the level of water in the cooling circuit and ask the dealer whether they did anything on the cooling.

[MichaelJ]

That's the water pump you are talking about making more noise??

Is it?  I don't know.  I'm not saying there is more noise--just slightly different noise from before.

So maybe check the level of water in the cooling circuit and ask the dealer whether they did anything on the cooling.

The maintenance schedule does have line items for Cooling System (inspect at 6,000 miles), and Coolant (no mention until a replacement at 18,000 miles).  Despite this lack of specific instruction, the tech put a check mark next to Coolant on the copy of the worksheet I was given.  Maybe he did look at it and that changed how the cooling system sounds.

I don't usually look at my motor temperature during the ride, but I looked today and the largest number I saw was 107 degrees Fahrenheit while in motion at around 40 mph.  Is that normal?  I'll keep an eye on it to see if the motor temperature gets higher over time, as it might if the radiator becomes less effective.

Once I reach my destination and press the kill switch, the MTR reading changes to "--" even though the fan/water pump continues running until I use the key to turn off the bike.  Funny that the AIR temperature reading and the RNG estimate don't change to "--".  PWR is of course zero or maybe 0.3 while the fan/pump and headlights are running until charging begins.

Thanks for the advice, kingcharles!

[kingcharles]

My experience is that air in the cooling circuit will make the pump noisy.

!! Warning, the below is from personal experience and may not be the recommended procedure from Brammo!!

To remove the air you need to remove the filling screwcap (behind the front cover) while the pump is running and you will see air bubbles rise to the top.

If you don't see cooling fluid that could be your problem so add a little until visible.

Just keep the pump running until all the bubbles are gone and the pump sounds normal again. You may need to add more cooling fluid to replace the air volume that escapes.

If you go for a nice ride beforehand your cooling pump will run more than long enough to perform this.

Removing the screwcap is the hardest part of this. Push down on it while you unscrew it.

[MichaelJ]

I just checked the manual, which says that the dashboard won't warn about motor temperature until 240 degrees Fahrenheit, so 107 seems normal.

[Chocula]

I don't watch it in every ride, but when I have checked the motor temperature on hot days, 140 - 150 Fahrenheit seemed to be common.