Author Topic: First Mod for the Empulse R??  (Read 6527 times)

FrankH

  • Empulse Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 142
  • First Enertia+ in the Netherlands!
    • View Profile
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2012, 07:12:20 AM »
But enough of the sappy stuff...if you're asking the guys about the 12V port, see if the numbers are the same for the Plus please...
The manual for the Plus says there's a 4A/12V fuse for AUX, I suppose that says something about how much power you can get from it? In this question in the Enertia Plus topic I asked about what I think is the Plus's accessory port, or what that connector is otherwise. Would you happen to know that, Brian?

thanks, Frank
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 07:14:06 AM by FrankH »

Gavin

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
    • View Profile
    • Sol Power.  BrammoBlog
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2012, 09:17:27 AM »
BrammoFan....

Perhaps we could use an Ask Brammo sub forum...now that bikes are rolling into dealers and new owners hands, more people are going to be asking more questions...

It would be nice, now that bikes are getting to dealers and new owners, if Brammo had somebody (Adam? Matt? James?) check the forum once a day and answered the questions they could...and punted on the ones that are "above their pay scale".

Gavin

BrammoBrian

  • Obsessive Empulsive
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 590
  • Director of Product Development - Brammo, Inc.
    • View Profile
    • BRAMMO
    • Email
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2012, 09:45:33 AM »
Today I ran the battery down to 15% for the first time, and, when accelerating up a long hill, I noticed some brief, partial cut outs. No cut outs, really, but more like a brief, subtle rapid stutter, with no degree of power loss that was concerning me, just noticeable. Probably some low voltage sensor getting tweaked at the current I was demanding. If this is something that shouldn't have happened, please let me know. Otherwise I can easily live with it.

So what I would like to know is how to adjust the suspension so it is the softest possible, reacting as quickly as possible to sharp changes. On the rear shock and the front forks there are screws with + and - signs on them. I turned everything as far as possible toward the negative and the ride was a bit smoother, less harsh. Any suggestions on how to turn this magnificent sporting machine into a water bed? A Gold Wing? OK, something softer than it came to me?

Thanks for all the answers, and maybe we should move this to a new topic, like "Newbie Empulse Rider Questions". 

Given that the ambient temperature is still rather low, meaning the batteries will be relatively cold, and you were accelerating up a hill with low SOC, I would guess what you felt was the low voltage protection kicking in.  If you are at a low SOC (State of Charge), then the voltage on the battery pack is also low.  For the same power, you now require the pack to deliver more current.  When you deliver this current, the pack voltage "sags" or drops.  If any of the cells reach below about 3.0Vdc for more than a short period of time, then the motor controller will start reducing current to prevent the pack from being damaged. I'm guessing that once you made it to the top of the hill or to a flatter section, the issue went away as the current demand (and thus battery voltage sag) were not as high.  Managing the battery at low SOC becomes quite difficult as the capacity remaining depends heavily on how it will be drawn out.  We, of course, try to leave a safety margin there so you do not experience the protection scheme above single digit SOC, but it is difficult to account for every situation.  When you return to Scuderia for your first service, they can pull the log file and verify this is what was going on.  They will be able to see recorded ambient temperature, speed, battery voltage, current, motor controller parameters, throttle position, and any error codes or flags. The diagnostic tool set for the bike is pretty impressive (IMHO).

Point taken on the streets in SF.  The Empulse R does have adjustability in the suspension, but it's still on the "sporty" side rather than the "plush" side.  Getting the bike to the Goldwing setting may not be possible.  Next steps I would recommend would be looking at dropping tire pressures ever so slightly or changing to a less sporty, year-round tire that has a bit more compliant side wall.  In the meantime, I'll ask Aaron Bland, suspension guru, if there's more that could be done on the settings from what you've already described. 

Agreed that all these comments should probably reside in another area of the forum for the benefit of all Empulse owners.  Point me there and I'll gladly go...

Richard230

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2519
    • View Profile
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2012, 10:47:20 AM »
Modern suspensions seem to be set up pretty tight when they are new.  The seals are tight and other parts need some break-in before they loosen up a bit and the suspension becomes more compliant.  This is especially true for high-end sportbike suspension components. In my experience, it takes at least 1000 miles of street riding to get the parts working together smoothly.

The other problem is that the designers of these suspensions typically are racers and set up their suspension components with an eye on track day users.  On the track, with its very smooth pavement, a tight and controlled suspension handles much better than one that is looser (and therefore more comfortable to the rider).  No one makes a sportbike suspension system for conditions like San Francisco's streets.  For that you need a dual purpose bike, not a sport bike. 

The FastAce suspension on my Zero is made by a company that specializes in small motocross motorcycle suspensions.  It was quite stiff and made a "thunking" noise when going over bumps when it was new.  This was apparently caused by tight seals at the bottom of the front fork female section. I was able to reduce the noise and smooth the action a little with some Teflon spray lube on the male slider. After about 1000 miles, the noise went away and the fully-adjustable suspension now works better, especially when hitting a large pothole or bump.  But it still doesn't work all that great when dealing with small irregularities, such as freeway expansion joints and the like.

I might add that there are a number of suspension specialists in the Bay Area (with not much to do right now) that would be familiar with your forks and rear shock and would be happy to help you set up your suspension, or make recommendations for new springs and valving that will make it work for your type of riding.  My guess is that Scuderia West knows someone local that can perform this service for you - if they can't do it themselves.
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

Shinysideup

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2012, 11:05:12 AM »
Point taken on the streets in SF.  The Empulse R does have adjustability in the suspension, but it's still on the "sporty" side rather than the "plush" side.  Getting the bike to the Goldwing setting may not be possible.  Next steps I would recommend would be looking at dropping tire pressures ever so slightly or changing to a less sporty, year-round tire that has a bit more compliant side wall.  In the meantime, I'll ask Aaron Bland, suspension guru, if there's more that could be done on the settings from what you've already described.  

Agreed that all these comments should probably reside in another area of the forum for the benefit of all Empulse owners.  Point me there and I'll gladly go...

I thought of dropping tire pressure: I can feel they're extra firm. Odd that the manual says to check the tire pressure but doesn't specify psi other than a picture of the Certification Label on p. 8 which shows 42 psi front and rear.  Indeed, my bike was delivered with these levels, but these levels are for the Gross Axle Weight Rating. Manuals for all my other bikes, in addition to the GAWR, also specified normal settings, usually for both one rider and with a passenger, and usually more in the rear than the front.

When you advise dropping the pressure ever so slightly, do you think my usual preference of 30 psi front and 36 psi rear would be acceptable? This is what my 490 lbs. R1200R recommended, with 41 psi rear when carrying a passenger on the similar size tires. I'm aware that range would suffer somewhat, but I've got plenty more range cushion than butt cushion.   :D

Thanks for the suggestion, Richard. I was planning dropping by Scuderia today to inquire. Point taken about my choice of a sport bike over a dual purpose. And I get that racers have a totally different requirement.  But I can't stop remembering how my harsh stock R1200R ride was magically transformed, and from the very first ride, after installing Wilbers shocks. It was taut and predictable in the twisties, AND, while not "plush", was very adept at handling abrupt surfaces that define SF streets. But then I put on some pricey Bitubo suspension on my TMax, and it was harsher than stock. Sigh...

I copied and pasted a Q&A from here to a new topic: "Empulse Rider Questions" so maybe we can move this over there.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 11:18:44 AM by Shinysideup »

Gavin

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
    • View Profile
    • Sol Power.  BrammoBlog
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #35 on: December 28, 2012, 11:06:01 AM »
hmmmm, goldwing comfort on a Brammo? hell, that could be the Brammo Touring bike...just image how many batteries you could shove into a Goldwing sized bike. It wouldn't be cheap, but then neither are Goldwings...still it would likely be close to Nissan Leaf prices...but would go twice as far as the LEAF...probably around Telsa range...

Gavin

Gavin

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2652
    • View Profile
    • Sol Power.  BrammoBlog
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2012, 11:08:24 AM »
"Empulse Rider Questions" works....I still prefer Ask A Brammo...

not sure why, just like how it sounds...


Gavin

Richard230

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 2519
    • View Profile
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2012, 12:42:15 PM »
For solo riding on my R1200R, I run 36 pounds in the front tire and 39 pounds in the rear tire.  42 pounds in the rear would be for carrying a maximum load. 

One of my big complaints about BMW is that they traditionally have used a lot of compression damping in their front and rear suspensions. I think they do this to compensate for relatively soft springs and their concern that the suspension might bottom when fully loaded and hitting a large bump or pothole. But I don't care for their stock suspensions, with one exception.  My R12R has their ESA (Electronic Suspension Adjustment) system and it works pretty well on a touring bike.  Comfort is quite compliant, Normal works well for most backroad riding and Sport is too stiff for my taste, but works well on a smooth road - if you can find one.  The automatic spring pre-load adjustment for a solo rider, a solo rider with luggage and two-up with luggage also works well and is a nice touch.  It sure beats having to turn a large ring against a stiff spring on most other single shock suspensions. All you do is push a button and a motor does the turning for you.  :)
current bikes: 2018 16.6 kWh Zero S, 2011 Royal Enfield Bullet 500 Classic, 2009 BMW F650GS, 2007 BMW R1200R, 2005 Triumph T-100 Bonneville, 2002 Yamaha FZ1 and a 1978 Honda Kick 'N Go Senior.

kingcharles

  • Empulse E1 80-MF-DR
  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 544
    • View Profile
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2012, 01:31:33 PM »
Just beware that lowering the tire pressure will also reduce the range of your bike.
Probably the reason that the pressures are at the high side on delivery.
Once you go EV, gas is history!

Shinysideup

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1423
    • View Profile
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2012, 01:46:06 AM »
Ooooo, Richard, you sprung for the ESA?  (pun intended)

Pushing a button sounds nice. I rode with pretty much the same pressure as you on my R1200R.

The Empulse didn't come with a spanner to adjust the preload on the rear, and it looks difficult (impossible) to get to with a wrench anyway, since it's nestled in between a frame tube and some under-seat plastic. So I'll prevail upon Scuderia to help with that.

Kingcharles, I'm not too worried about range for my normal day-to-day riding: plenty to spare.

Today I adjusted the pressures to 36 front and rear and the ride was both slightly smoother and slightly less responsive when throwing the bike into a turn. My pressures are probably  still a  bit too high, since I read somewhere that adjusting them "cold" means 70F, not the 45F of my garage this morning.

Oh well, the bike's still a blast and I'm sure I can get the suspension sorted out, one way or another. Meanwhile, I've got to work diligently on getting my break-in barrier of 600 miles to fall,  quickly, because I really want to play with Sport mode. 8)

protomech

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 1987
    • View Profile
    • ProtoBlog
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2012, 01:56:14 AM »
Those mirrors look the business! Very nice.

Speaking of mods, Im still as big fan of the gold battery covers:

Slightly different angle on that TTX shot, plus less instagram crap.



Gold + yellow + white + black? I smell a Georgia Tech themed bike... : )
1999 Honda VFR800i | 2014 Zero SR
Check out who's near you on frodus's EV owner map!
http://protomech.wordpress.com/

ttxgpfan

  • Brammovangelist
  • *****
  • Posts: 449
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: First Mod for the Empulse R??
« Reply #41 on: December 30, 2012, 11:34:33 PM »
Ahh, yes.  The Shelina Moreda interview.  And where would you find that?  :-X

I went back and only 7(?) minutes in we start talking about shifting the Empulse.  She doesn't say she was told to blip the throttle, she was just pointing out to the listeners that they should.  Remember that this is in racing conditions, and the reason was to keep the chassis from getting unsettled while charging hard into a corner.  Probably something she discovered, or as Brian said, worked out talking to EBoz.