Empulse Production Date?

[Brammofan]

Here's some hack writing about the event, with accompanying footage of the bike at said Long Beach GP:
http://brammofan.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/kinetosis-brammo-ttr-style/

[EmpulseRider]

Here's another video link, with the black Empulse:


From December 2011.

[Richard230]

Every time I see the Empulse prototype, I think that the bike sure has a lot of high-end chassis parts on it.  I love that the bike and the way it has been designed. It really does look like a top-tier sportbike. But I also see lots of $$$ to build it as a production motorcycle. If they keep that chassis specification, it is going to be tough keeping the price much below $20K. 

Looking at the Empulse and the Zero S, it is obvious that the Zero is very much a practical commuter, styled like a supermoto, while the Empulse is exactly what the reporter indicates in that video. A modern high performance sportbike.

The Zero uses reasonably priced off-the-shelf parts where they could to cut costs. As an example, the "S" comes with IRC Road Winner tires, which sell for around $40 retail when on sale. The brakes and suspension work well, but they are not Ohlins or Brembo monoblock quality. They are clearly built to a price. I also believe that is another reason why they didn't consider a gearbox or liquid cooling. That would have added a lot of money to the price and they were trying to make the bikes as affordable as they could with the available technology. The two companies clearly have different visions and goals in mind for the electric motorcycle market.

One question comes to mind: will that high specification result in an equally high performance expectation by purchasers that the bike may not be able to meet, if it starts being compared with a Ducati or BMW S1000RR?   

[FreepZ]

I really hope that the price does not get much higher than the advertised $14k (for the Empulse 10).

When I was first looking at buying an EV, I considered getting something like a Nissan Leaf. But the Leaf wasn't going to be able to make a round trip from my office to the coast, where I go on the weekends, and I'm not going to buy a $30k+ car that can't fulfill that requirement. (Now that I know more about EVs I'm not even sure that the Leaf could make the trip there, let alone back again.)

I figured a motorcycle that was only half that price would be worth it, even if I have to do a bit of hypermiling to do the trip. If the price ends up being $20k, I'm going to add a couple more wheels, a roof, and a bit more cash and get a car instead. I'm ready to pay $14k for a vehicle that's fun but not too practical (it's hot and very humid in Florida for much of the year). $20k is too much. Especially considering what else I can buy for $20k. (Heck, I've just been looking at motorcycle websites, and it's pretty amazing what I could get for just $10k!)

[protomech]

One thing I missed when I originally watched the video.. they mentioned at 0:53 that the Empulse will charge from the same level 2 charger that the Volt and Leaf use (ie, J1772).

I expect to see numerous changes from the Empulse concept to the production bike when that is revealed - mostly for the purposes of cost-cutting and easing assembly.

I don't think Zero considered a transmission for the S because a transmission has little benefit for a commuter bike, 88 mph top speed numbers notwithstanding. I do not think they would have pursued it even if it was an equal cost option.

In Kawasaki's lineup, the Zero S/DS is most similar IMO in styling and intent to Kawasaki's KLX-250, MSRP $5000. The dual-sport lineup has a fairly compressed range, from $5000 KLX-250 to $6300 KLR-650, and up to $8400 for the motocross race bikes ($3400 range). The low-end S has a $6500 delta over its similar gas bike.

Kawasaki's small sportbike lineup has a much broader range, from $4000 for the Ninja 250 to $14000 for the ZX-10R ($10000 range). It's possible the Empulse could wind up being compared to the literbikes - it's likely to be close in price on the low-end and exceed on the top-end, but I think the Empulse won't have anywhere near the performance of the top bikes in that range. The closest similar gas bike is probably the Ninja 650R, MSRP $7500 -- and perhaps we'll see a similar $6500 delta for the low-end Empulse over its companion gas bike.

While the price and image could lead to some comparisons the Empulse is seriously unequipped for (BMW S1000RR or ZX-10R), it could also help the Empulse sales. I suppose many liter bike owners never exploit the bike's full performance on the track, but instead buy the bike to buy the best/most expensive sportbike available. If they look at the electric lineup, the low-end Empulse won't be priced out of line with their expectations - and it has the racing cred and performance, at least in the electric market.

I agree that the Zero S is a better commuter bike - at least for sub-insane freeway traffic. But Americans tend to buy either sportbikes or cruisers .. and then use them primarily for 10-20 mile commutes.

[Richard230]

I don't see the Empulse being used by very many owners as a commute vehicle.  I see riders all the time during commute hours in the Bay Area riding trashed older 600cc sport bikes on the freeway, passing cars between lanes at high speeds and in general riding like jerks. They seem to have little interest in caring for themselves or their vehicles. Cheap and unattractive seems to be the ideal for a motorcycle commuter.

My son-in-law rides his 2000 VFR 800 (or my daughter's 1986 VFR700FII) every day to work, no matter what the weather.  He never washes them and only maintains them when they break.  I don't think anyone around here rides a nice bike to work every day. Something like the Zero would work because it is kind of ugly, especially in all black (at least to my eyes), and would not attract the attention of the great unwashed, with their bolt cutters and old van with its ramp. 

To illustrate why you don't want a nice motorcycle in San Francisco, where just about all public parking takes place on the street, I have this story. One time when my son-in-law was riding his 1986 Kawasaki GPz550 to work, someone broke off the top of one of his spark plugs and the bike (obviously) wouldn't run well until he found a replacement.  Apparently, the local residents use spark plug tops as crack pipes.  Commuting on a motorcycle in a large city can be a tough task.

But, on the weekends I see a lot of recreational riders on modern sport bikes, like Ducati's, BMW's, Aprilias, KTMs, Kawasakis, etc., riding around the local hills and hanging out at the usual places.  I think that is where you would see the Empulse when it comes out. But, if you ask me, that market is a lot smaller than the EV commute market.  I see the Empulse as performing well, getting good reviews and looking great. But I am not too sure how many Brammo will sell in the long run.   

[Gavin]

Interesting takes....Time will tell how it all plays out.

I can say that here (Albuquerque), even with nice year round weather---though not San Diego or Hawaii weather for sure, well very very few people commute by motorcycle.

In Europe I see EV commuter bikes selling like funnel cakes at a stand by the exit of a Fat Farm...but not in the States...at least not for a few more years...Americans LOVE cars...after that, Americans love FAST bikes.

I think the Empulse will do better in the States than the Enertia, Plus or Zero bikes.

Heck, the EV dirt bikes have a better chance of selling in the States than the commuter bikes (and I love me some commuter bikes...I just know that in the 7 years I've been commuting by scooter, motorcycle and bicycle that I am often fairly lonely...More bicycle commuters than motorcycle commuters...and of the bikes on the roads in the summer months...40 percent high end--Harleys and BMW bikes---25 percent beater bikes (old hondas and such) and 25 percent sports bikes and about 10 percent scooters---higher scooter count around the college though.

Every city will be different....and GAS PRICES could change a lot of this.

But for a commuter, especially for first time people and people trying to save money, many will go scooter or cheap beater off craigslist. Next people will go sports bike...lastly people will go High End bike or Electric.

Electric has a tough road ahead of it...prices need to come down...hopefully that will happen (like with HD TVs) after the early adopters help fray down the start up costs....


See, we do have an important task ahead

Spend a lot of money to help out our fellow countrymen and perhaps make the world that tiny bit better.

Gavin

[Gavin]

ps....people in San Fran need to get some Zena disc locks...nobody is gonna mess with your bike to take a spark plug when your bike is blaring out a really obnoxious alarm.

AND the EV bikes don't have spark plugs anyways (though crack heads might do more damage to your ride just trying to find it...

Gavin


ps...thirdly....take your ride inside. (my trademarked slogan )...EVs--no gas or oil, no leaking fluids, no smell...take your ride inside and have it be safe and charging while you work.

[Brammofan]

Well, I'd ride the Empulse as a commuter, and as a weekender.  But I'm peculiar.

Also, no need to worry about broken-off sparkplugs.

[Phantom]

I don't see the Empulse being used by very many owners as a commute vehicle. 

I plan on being one. Right now, my Enertia is a commuter bike, but only because it cannot handle highway speeds the way I want it to. I can see the Empulse as a commuter bike for its primary use, but be flexible to take longer trips on the weekend.

I agree that most may not use it as a commuter bike.

[Gavin]

yeah...any bike I have is a commuter, weekender, shopping cart, errand runner and camper....









ha...I remember that as my first Camp Scoot...60 miles to the campground...20 on a highway...150cc scooter loaded down...fun times...

Gavin

[Gavin]

Brammo really like their Wednesday announcements, dont they? Just about every big announcement has been on a Wednesday.

Not only Wednesdays...but Wednesday when I am in out reach clinic in Gallup New Mexico.....


Grrrr, hard to stalk the interwebs and this board when I am in the boondocks of New Mexico....


Gavin

[EmpulseRider]

One time when my son-in-law was riding his 1986 Kawasaki GPz550 to work, someone broke off the top of one of his spark plugs and the bike (obviously) wouldn't run well until he found a replacement.  Apparently, the local residents use spark plug tops as crack pipes.  Commuting on a motorcycle in a large city can be a tough task.

Those crackheads are a crafty lot, I will give them that...

Anyway, I plan to use the Empulse as a commuter first, recreation vehicle second, just like my 07 GSXR750 and the Ducati 749 before that. You cant really use a motorcycle year round here in Colorado as a commuter though, I think that may be one of the reasons why most of the bikes I see folks commuting on are really quite nice...

[EmpulseRider]

So Brammo has all but confirmed via Facebook that the production date of the Empulse will be some time in May:

http://www.facebook.com/BrammoInc
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-electric-motorcycle-20120317,0,7364322.story

It will be built here in the US too! Very cool!

Lots of question still remain though... if production is less than 3 months out, shouldnt we have gotten contacted about locking in our pre-orders with a deposit? Specs, Price, available ranges, etc...

[protomech]

Quoting delivery dates is tricky  (we are now very close to the magic 1000 pre-orders).
If you pre-order an Empulse today clearly you will be at the end of a long line !
The first time the final design appears in public will probably be at EICMA in November.
The first bikes from production will go into long term high mileage testing.
The second group will be used for homologation and type approval in USA/Europe/Asia
The next group will be made available to the media for review.
Then bikes will go to dealers in the different regions N America/ Europe / Asia
The dealers will deliver in the order the bikes were pre-ordered, some customers may want to delay their delivery, if this happens other pre-orders will move up the line.
Everyone who has pre-ordered will be kept full informed via the Empulse Newsletter and they will be contacted by their local dealer 90 days before their Empulse goes into production.

Rest assured delivering the Empulse in volume is our #1 priority.

Presumably the May production is referring to the (final production version) long term high mileage testing bikes.
I would guess that puts delivery no earlier than July, with final specs and preorder confirmations showing up in April sometime.