Next up - Empulse!

[FreepZ]

The details of the Enertia Plus are finally out (thanks to Gavin for letting us non-Plus folks see the information). Next up is the info for the Empulse!

Here's something that I found on Brammo's Facebook page:

Brammo We remain on plan - no exact date has been announced yet - but that will happen shortly. The Empulse is being assembled here in Southern Oregon so delivery to dealers in CA should be straightforward...

I hadn't heard of any Flextronics factory being built in Oregon, so I wonder where they are going to make them? Will they be built in that building that we've seen in some of the videos? How many bikes do you think that they will be able to build in a month?

US deliveries are expected to commence in JulyJune 2012.

Assuming that the Empulse deliveries start off around the same time, they would have to be churning out at least 250 bikes per month if I'm going to be able ride an Empulse to the TTXGP World Championship race in Daytona. I hope they can make it.

[Gavin]

Yeah, March should be a fun month for Empulse pre order folks.

One correction...Plus deliveries are supposed to start Jume 2012.

I wonder if Brammo is building those in house too vs Hungary?

Gavin

[protomech]

Freepz: assuming all preorders confirm. I suspect fewer than 1 in 4 will.

Brammo uses 70 Ah NMC lithium pouches in the BPM 44/70 module. 12x 3.7V 70Ah pouches make for a 44.4V 70Ah 3.1 kWh pack.

At one point Brammo specified the 6.0 and 8.0 Empulse at 88.8V and the 10.0 Empulse at 111V (24 and 30 sets of 3.7V cells in series, respectively). The current specifications, which granted can hardly be trusted, are 88.8V all the way across.


Speculation
Brammo drops the 8.0 configuration and offers a 6.0 configuration (24x 3.7V 70Ah pouches 6.2kWh) at $13k and a 10.0 configuration (24x 3.7V 120Ah pouches 10.7kWh) at $16k.

A common system voltage means you only have to design and test one powertrain, and I think Brammo can get cells cheaply enough that a middle configuration will be redundant. Since they have 70Ah pouches for the Enertia Plus it's a no-brainer to re-use them for a lower-entry Empulse.

That also gives Brammo a nice tiered set of offerings:

$10995 Enertia Plus 6.2 kWh
$12995 Empulse 6.2 kWh
$15995 Empulse 10.7 kWh

[Shinysideup]

GREAT NEWS!

I dropped by Scuderia West in San Francisco yesterday just fishing for any news on the Empulse, since they are a Brammo dealer.

Personnel there confirmed that this year's production run will be out of Portland with a delivery date this summer. (I'm aiming for the fat middle of July).

Since numbers are likely to be more limited than when European production gets ramped up, I was offered to get on their wait list for a $500 deposit. Their is list is MUCH shorter than Brammo's and I was assured that I would get a bike when they took delivery and dealers may get the first runs. Since I'm No. 1527 on the Brammo list, I quickly and gladly paid on the spot and left feeling way better about the Great Wait. I might have even shouted woohoo! out on the sidewalk.

BTW, one of the employees shared that an Empulse was brought to their shop some time ago (I believe as part of a negotiation with some financial guys), and the employee was offered a chance to ride it before it was loaded back on the truck. He, of course, jumped at the offer, and took it for a short spin in their neighborhood, but was able to hit 70 mph in about a block and it definitely felt like he was riding a 600cc sport bike. Woohoo indeed!

I'm ready! Re: Next up - Empulse!

[Gavin]

Wonderful news...

Yeah, there is always going to be some complaints about this...but is just the way it goes...Dealers are always going to get some bikes and deposit holders some bikes...it was never going to be all bikes first to customers and no dealer bikes, nor all dealer bikes and nothing to deposit customers...


Great for you!!! Hopefully Brammo can make quite a few so they get both dealers and deposit holders bikes ASAP....

and i agree...mid July seem about right for the Empulse bikes to be rolling into shops and homes...

Gavin

[Shinysideup]

I agree with your perspective, Gavin.

If I weren't so late to the game (high number on the Brammo list), I probably wouldn't have bothered, but I'm thrilled to have something that seems more definite than a 4 digit number without any deposit and absolutely no communication (monthly email newsletter promised, not delivered  ).

Somehow putting down a chunk of money makes things more concrete. Like the dealer said, "Now, it's real. It's going to happen." (Good salesman!)

So having a dealer as an advocate for getting a bike seems like not a bad thing. Probably has more leverage than my whiny (and unanswered) emails.

I also figured that if the dealer were to get some profit, it may enhance our relationship when and if it comes time for warranty problems. Of which I will have none!

[protomech]

BTW, one of the employees shared that an Empulse was brought to their shop some time ago (I believe as part of a negotiation with some financial guys), and the employee was offered a chance to ride it before it was loaded back on the truck. He, of course, jumped at the offer, and took it for a short spin in their neighborhood, but was able to hit 70 mph in one block and it definitely felt like he was riding a 600cc sport bike. Woohoo indeed!

Bearing in mind that someone trying to sell you on a $14k+ electric sportsbike has reason to be favorable to the product .. sounds good : ) Did the bike have the IET at that point?

[Richard230]

The way BMW works with a new model in demand (all of their new models are always in demand) is to hold back even pre-ordered bikes with deposits until they have accumulated enough of the new models in their U.S. warehouse to supply at least one demonstrator and the pre-ordered bikes to each (of the hundreds) dealer in the country.  When I pre-ordered a new 2009 F650GS, it was built in June 2008, shipped to the U.S. warehouse in July, where it stayed until (they had lame excuses why it couldn't be shipped) they had manufactured enough units to satisfy their entire dealer network demand. Then the bikes were shipped out.  My bike finally arrived in September, two weeks after the demonstrator arrived at my dealer.

[mykb13]

As one of the very early empulse pre-orders, I won't be too happy if someone in the pre-order #1000 range gets their empulse before I get mine just because they happen to be near a dealer that's taking deposits and Brammo prioritizes dealers with local wait lists over direct sales to pre-order customers.  I applaud anyone who puts down a deposit with a local dealer and does whatever it takes to get one sooner than those who have been waiting years, and I would definitely do the same if I was late to the game; however, when I signed up, Best Buy was still in the picture and we were supposed to be able to purchase a bike and have it shipped to us.

I've had cash waiting for almost 2 years, been willing to fly out to the factory and take delivery, cut out the middle man, and pay the shipping back to Ohio.  So if I hear that they will only sell thru their dealers, there are no dealers in/near Ohio and the existing Brammo dealers prioritize "their" local customers with deposits over the people early on the pre-order list, Brammo will probably lose a sale! 

I understand the need to take care of their dealers (without a good dealer network, supporting customer is nearly imposible), but if Brammo doesn't take care of the customers then there's no need for the dealers.  If Brammo decides not to sell direct to the customer when there is no nearby dealer, then their remote dealers also need to take care of the pre-orders.  Obviously, the dealers want to sell locally so they can get the maintenance, repair and accessories sale; but some of us have been waiting patiently (or impatiently) for a very long time!

I'll admit that I'm glad I'm not at Brammo and have to make the decision on how to proceed, because I only see a lose-lose-lose situation for them.  Do they upset the dealers by forcing sales to non-local pre-orders?  Do they upset the pre-orders by prioitizing the existing dealers with local wait lists?  Or do they upset the pre-orders and dealers by delaying the release even longer until they have a large enough supply warehoused for everyone and an extensive dealer network is in place to handle all of the pre-orders and local wait lists?

Decisions, decisions...

[Shinysideup]

Did the bike have the IET at that point?

Did not. He said the acceleration was a bit sluggish up to about 20 mph and then took off like a 600 cc sport bike. He was able to ride it only about 10 blocks, but he definitely hit 70 mph, maybe not in exactly one block but certainly in less than two.

I guess the sluggishness (which I noticed in my Zero test ride) is the reason for the IET.

[Shinysideup]

I'll admit that I'm glad I'm not at Brammo and have to make the decision on how to proceed, because I only see a lose-lose-lose situation for them.  Do they upset the dealers by forcing sales to non-local pre-orders?  Do they upset the pre-orders by prioitizing the existing dealers with local wait lists?  Or do they upset the pre-orders and dealers by delaying the release even longer until they have a large enough supply warehoused for everyone and an extensive dealer network is in place to handle all of the pre-orders and local wait lists?

Maybe there's at least one other alternative.

If Brammo is sitting on, say, 1000 orders, that's a potential of, say $14M coming in. I have no idea what their profit margin is, but it may well be enough, along with the cash from Polaris, to more quickly ramp up production in Europe and with the first Empulses creating a surge in sales because they're so way cool, the wave of European-made machines will come pouring in and satisfy ALL the orders before anyone gets too upset and propel Brammo into the next phase quicker than anyone could imagine. Just sayin'...

Hmm... seems I've stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest, which wasn't my intention. I was just excited to share some positive news, since I had gotten Zero from Brammo. Hope I didn't get my dealer in trouble with TPTB.

[mykb13]

Hmm... seems I've stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest, which wasn't my intention. I was just excited to share some positive news, since I had gotten Zero from Brammo. Hope I didn't get my dealer in trouble with TPTB.

Haha, no harm no foul.  That's the purpose of the forum, to discuss things.  As I mentioned, I "definitely" would do anything I could to get an Empulse sooner rather than later.  I also didn't intend to stir anything up, but hope that maybe someone from Brammo can come on here and if not spill the beans, at least say, "we can't divulge our roll-out plan yet, but we hear what everyone is saying and think we have a plan that will address everyone's concerns".  Telling us something is better than saying nothing at all 

[EmpulseRider]

Sorry Shinysideup, the folks at Scuderia West are mistaken. Brammo plans to fulfill pre-orders sequentially as planned through their dealer network.

Personally, I would prefer to take my delivery from Brammo themselves in person... so I could meet the people behind the bike and tour the facility. The European delivery program that BMW has comes to mind:

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Experience/Events/EuropeanDelivery/default.aspx

[FreepZ]

Personally, I would prefer to take my delivery from Brammo themselves in person... so I could meet the people behind the bike and tour the facility.

I would love to do that too. Alas, I don't have the two weeks that it would take me (doing at most 300 miles per day) to ride back to Florida from Ashland!
 

[Shinysideup]

Sorry Shinysideup, the folks at Scuderia West are mistaken. Brammo plans to fulfill pre-orders sequentially as planned through their dealer network.

Oh well, worse case scenario: My purchase price will be $500 less now... when I take delivery in 2027!