Oil Change

[Richard230]

The majority of the motorcycles that I have owned over the years did not have an oil filter. That included a number of early Japanese motorcycles, as well as having owned 10 two-stoke motorcycles with separate, non-filtered, transmissions and wet clutches (everything from my 1963 Yamaha YD3 to my 2003 Aprilia RS50). My 1971 Triumph Bonneville and five BMW boxers that I owned and serviced, also had completely separate gearboxes with splash lubrication and no filters. I never saw that type of metal swarf when draining the oil - and I used to inspect the drained oil closely for any visible impurities. So I don't know what is going on. It just doesn't look good to me.

[Shinysideup]

Well, Richard, with the exception of the Aprilia, none of those bikes are from Italy. Heck, we're lucky we're not seeing cigarette butts in the oil!

Don't all BMW boxers have dry clutches?

I too was surprised at the amount of metal. And thanks for teaching me a new word: swarf.

I'll worry if there's that much debris on my next oil change. Meanwhile, I'm taking solace in Brian's reassurances. And in the fact that my transmission is still working well at 2K miles, with plenty of warranty left.

[Richard230]

Not all BMW's have dry clutches, just the boxer twins do. And the new boxer design now has replaced the single-plate dry clutch and separate gearbox with a integrated, multi-plate oiled clutch, transmission and engine slump, all lubed by the same oil. It sure makes the clutch easier to replace as it is now located at the front of the engine, under a cover where the alternator used to be.

However, thinking about it last night, the Empulse's transmission is best compared with the one on most two-stroke IC engines. All of those use a separate transmission, with a multi-plate oiled clutch, all lubed by the same oil with splash lubrication and no filter.  So you would think that the performance, servicing and reliability would be similar to a two-stroke transmission.

Unless, the Empulse has a lot more torque than any other two-stroke motor has seen in a long time.  That could be an issue.  As for Italian manufacturing goes, I had no problems with my Aprilia's transmission or clutch - just rings, piston circlips and eventually connecting rods breaking.   

[BrammoBrian]

However, thinking about it last night, the Empulse's transmission is best compared with the one on most two-stroke IC engines. All of those use a separate transmission, with a multi-plate oiled clutch, all lubed by the same oil with splash lubrication and no filter.  So you would think that the performance, servicing and reliability would be similar to a two-stroke transmission.

Correct.  I don't know if you are insinuating a negative or positive from this comment, but from my perspective, this gearbox, like that of a 2-stroke ICE, is relatively simple design, but dead reliable and abuse tolerant.  It is also incredibly compact and also very light weight.  The service intervals indicated are correct to keep the transmission running well.  The break-in period oil change should be the dirtiest.

Again - the debris on the drain plug shown is from the metallic fibers in the clutch and is comparable to what you would find changing the oil on a 2-stroke bike with these kind of clutch plates.  If you put on a pair of rubber gloves and sift through the material, you can convince yourself that there is no actual metal "chunks" or "chips" indicative of excessive wear.  The oil will become cleaner on successive oil changes and there will be somewhat less debris, but it will never be perfectly clean when you change it, owing to the contamination from the clutch.  If the clutch fiber material bothers you, then we will be offering a high-performance Kevlar plate clutch kit from Hinson for the TTX bike that can be dropped in, which would have the additional benefit of keeping the oil cleaner (if that's your goal). 

 

[CAT in HAWAII]

However, thinking about it last night, the Empulse's transmission ,,,

 The oil will become cleaner on successive oil changes and there will be somewhat less debris, but it will never be perfectly clean when you change it, owing to the contamination from the clutch.  If the clutch fiber material bothers you, then we will be offering a high-performance Kevlar plate clutch kit from Hinson for the TTX bike that can be dropped in, which would have the additional benefit of keeping the oil cleaner (if that's your goal). 

Ohhhhhhh,, (drool) ,,,, Kevlar ,,,,,,

I'd like to sign up for that clutch plate when the time comes to change it out,,,,

[implovator]

Finally hit 600 miles today, so I changed the oil this evening. My plug looked about the same. The interesting thing was that the buildup on the magnet consisted of a slush of very fine particles and oil. There really was no substantial mass to it and it didn't feel gritty at all because of all of the oil soaked up into it. I'm officially unconcerned about it now.

On another note...I can't wait for Sport Mode tomorrow!

[CAT in HAWAII]

Finally hit 600 miles today, so I changed the oil this evening. My plug looked about the same. The interesting thing was that the buildup on the magnet consisted of a slush of very fine particles and oil. There really was no substantial mass to it and it didn't feel gritty at all because of all of the oil soaked up into it. I'm officially unconcerned about it now.

On another note...I can't wait for Sport Mode tomorrow!
[/quote

  cool! E are just about on the same place then, I hit 605 Thursday, & gonna do oil change tomorrow ,,,
Got my Amsoil finally,,, have fun in sport mode!!!!

[CAT in HAWAII]

On another note...I can't wait for Sport Mode tomorrow!
[/quote

  cool! E are just about on the same place then, I hit 605 Thursday, & gonna do oil change tomorrow ,,,
Got my Amsoil finally,,, have fun in sport mode!!!!

Well, rainy days and getting ready for a trip, I'm FINALLY doing my oil,,

In the WIKI, it says drive around to get the oil heated up,, since we got a motor temp gauge,, (just scroll the button till we get there,,,) what temp should we get to to be ready (more viscous) for the oil change,,

I know I e hit 115 degrees, but what is really good enough ,,,

[frodus]

Cat, your quotes are showing up weird. Make sure you're typing the reponse before the first bracket of the "quote" code or after the last bracket of the "/quote" code

[CAT in HAWAII]

Cat, your quotes are showing up weird. Make sure you're typing the reponse before the first bracket of the "quote" code or after the last bracket of the "/quote" code

This better? I'm using iPhone,, should be no excuse right??? 🙀🙀🙀

[frodus]

Yeah. I have the same issue with tapatalk on my android.

[FreepZ]

In the WIKI, it says drive around to get the oil heated up,, since we got a motor temp gauge,, (just scroll the button till we get there,,,) what temp should we get to to be ready (more viscous) for the oil change,,

I know I e hit 115 degrees, but what is really good enough ,,,

I never considered just running the motor with the bike in neutral to warm up the oil. That would probably work, but not be as much fun as riding the bike!

The temperature reading on the dash is for the motor, not the transmission or the oil. In a worst case example, you could could be lugging uphill at a slow speed and a high gear, getting the motor really hot, while the transmission oil could be quite cool.

[Shinysideup]

Is it possible you are over-thinking the oil temp issue?

I've always changed my oil after coming home from a ride. Or, if the bike's cold when I want to service it, I just ride around for about 10 minutes to warm things up.

Remember, unless racing, this oil is not going to get very hot compared to ICE crankcase oil, and all you want to accomplish is to let the viscosity thin a bit so it will run off the gears efficiently. If a little more is left behind clinging to the gears, I don't think it's mission critical.

[Richard230]

Well, the next person to drain their oil should go for a ride and then measure the temperature of the oil with a meat thermometer (or other appropriate device) just after it hits the pot.  If it is not much above ambient air temperature, then letting the bike sit for a while might actually be better than riding it around, as that would give the oil a little more time to drain off of the gears and into whatever the transmission uses for a sump.

[00049 (AKA SopFu)]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but my dealer has informed me that I (and everyone else that followed the method in this thread, the Brammo Wiki, and the manual) have been doing my oil changes incorrectly. In my last thread where my bike left me stranded, I mentioned that I had an oil leak that appeared to be coming from the breather tube. The dealer doing the recall said I had about 10 oz too much oil, and with the ultra cold temps the extra thick oil was working it's way out of the weakest seal - the breather tube. That is weird because I ran out of oil before I had any coming out of the level hole during my last change 2,600 miles ago (I put a full quart in, so didn't think it would be a problem). Of course I had the bike on the side stand since the manual specifically states that "The transmission should be filled with the Empulse standing on level ground and supported by the kickstand."

Apparently the correct way to fill the bike is with the bike on a center/race stand. I told my dealer to forward the e-mail from Brammo confirming that the manual is incorrect and to fill and check level with the bike centered, and I'll save it as a pic and upload it to the forum once I get a copy (and try to change the wiki, but no promises).