Possible 6 speed for the Empulse!

[EmpulseRider]

OK, from the information I have gathered this morning I am gonna go out on a limb and make the assumption that Brammo's "new technology" that debuted in the Encite and Engage will also be standard / available equipment on the Empulse. Advantages, disadvantages? Brammo is claiming improved performance and range!

[FreepZ]

6 speeds seems like a lot for an electric motor. I thought that the only limiting factor for the motor was that it lost efficiency at very high RPMs. Even the Tesla only has two gears. This looks a bit like a gimmick to me -- folks are used to 6 speeds, so we give them 6 speeds.

If they put a gearbox on the Empulse RR, and it outperforms other bikes without a gearbox, I will be more convinced.

[Squid]

I totally agree.  It must be some sort of IET.  Perhaps not 6 speeds, but something that will allow the rider to balance acceleration and range.  I've been thinking (absentmindedly, pie in the sky type stuff) about how even a two speed transmission would help.  With the Engage getting six (!) the performance potential for the Empulse becomes pretty staggering.  ("You mean I can access all that torque while travelling at speed?  Woah.")  I was always willing to wait until 2012.  Now I'm *really* willing to wait.

[Squid]

Interesting comment from Craig on Hell for Leather about how he was "scared" to give the Engage full throttle in third gear!  Yikes.  Clearly, it'll take some time to get the balance right for the Empulse, unless hooning in third and fourth gear is the intent of the thing ...

*** EDIT:  Craig was actually talking about the Encite, not the Engage.  Sorry. The performance of that bike is said to be the first time an EV will actually outperform an ICE equivalent. ***

[EmpulseRider]

Good points. You guys got me thinking about a few things. When do you shift? Is there gonna be a tack for engine speed? Gear indicator? Shift indicator light? Idle, clutch... certainly cant "kill" the electric motor like you can an ICE. Lots of questions about how this would work... the tesla is a 2 speed auto right?

Are there any other EVs out there with a manual transmission?

[Squid]

And what about engine braking?  That's something ICE riders really miss when they get on an EV.  All we know (or can infer) at the moment is that it's a mechatronic unit designed to emulate a normal transmission.  Whether it does *all* the things a traditional bike transmission does remains to be seen.  I somehow doubt it can be everything a normal transmission is.  And it will *have* to be programmed to manage the "off the line, zero rpm maximum torque" behaviour of electric motors.  That'll take some time to develop.

In any event, very exciting news.

[Gavin]

I wonder how this will affect pricing?

I imagine this will be an off-road and Empulse item (though perhaps the Empulse won't get a full 6 gears?)....but will we see it on a commuter like the Enertia? If not, would it be available as an option or just not possible with the size constraint? 

Cool stuff, but still lots of questions. And waiting till 2012 is understandable, at the same time you have to get product to sell or risk losing the market to the big boys (ie, see LEAF and Ford about to kill Th!nk and other start up EVs that took too long...I would mention Aptera, but that was killed by ineptitude of Team B)

Gavin

[Richard230]

Thinking about that 6-speed transmission, I wonder if it is mostly for the dirt bike? The lower gearing would make it a lot easier when climbing dirt hills. The extra torque and lower speed range might be helpful when trail riding. It does seem like overkill and unnecessary complication for an electric motor powered street bike to me.

While I am not too happy having to wait until 2012 (my guess) before the Empulse is delivered, I get the feeling that I would be a lot more unhappy if I bought an Empulse and then the following year, they completely revamped the bike's technology to make it perform better. If that happened I would feel like current Zero owners, who always seem to have just bought a brand new obsolete model, which has been superseded by a newer model just announced by the factory.

[Gavin]

where will this trans fit on the Empulse? Will Brammo decrease battery size since this improves range? Or keep battery size and make the Empulse a bit bigger? Or move batteries about a bit to keep size??

Gavin

[Gavin]

While I am not too happy having to wait until 2012 (my guess) before the Empulse is delivered, I get the feeling that I would be a lot more unhappy if I bought an Empulse and then the following year, they completely revamped the bike's technology to make it perform better. If that happened I would feel like current Zero owners, who always seem to have just bought a brand new obsolete model, which has been superseded by a newer model just announced by the factory.

Cars and bikes and such in the EV world (current and especially future) are kinda like computers and phones and HD TVs and such...as soon as you buy one, well it is outdated....the market and tech moves soooo fast that the next model will have greater range, more speed, often lower price....

it is kinda crazy, but we will think of cars and motorcycles like an iPad or iPhone.

I have never leased before, but I am thinking leases might be a large majority of car sales in the future...but maybe not...the upside of electric vehicles is lifespan. when I get my electric car in a couple of years it could very well be the last car I ever buy. almost no parts to break or replace. new battery every ten years that will increase the range probably 4x what is currently available (i expect batteries to improve about 2x every 5 years)

Gavin

[Mr.Rodgers]

Lots of questions about how this would work... the tesla is a 2 speed auto right?

Single speed trans.  They found that adding gears just complicated things and added very little in terms of performance/range.  Seems as if Brammo/IET has come to a different conclusion with this application

[EmpulseRider]

Interesting feature of the IET "simulated engine breaking". I can only assume this will provide some energy recovery.

[Gavin]

We imagine a motorcycle for the city centre that can both take on steep hills and drive at high speed, allowing it to be used on the highway or around city motorways.

I wonder if the 6 speed would help with long uphills...Electrics hate long uphills...well not so much hate as long uphills drain batteries hella quick...it would be great if the shifty helps keep the battery happy on long uphills...

Gavin

[Brammofan]

Interesting feature of the IET "simulated engine breaking". I can only assume this will provide some energy recovery.

Let's also hope that it's "simulated engine braking" or it could turn out to be expensive.

[EmpulseRider]

Interesting feature of the IET "simulated engine breaking". I can only assume this will provide some energy recovery.

Let's also hope that it's "simulated engine braking" or it could turn out to be expensive.

Man, too bad spell check doesn't compensate for stupidity...