Empulse pre-orders

[brammoHKjames]

As Brammo are now approaching 1000 pre-orders, how many of those do you think will materialize into actual money-down orders?  Just to get you really thinking...if only Empulse 10.0 was available.

It seems very easy to have a commitment free pre-order with no deposit, to have a chance at winning a free bike.  Is this pre-order system the right way to gauge potential sales interest?

What would you do to gauge market interest if you were Brammo/Zero/Quantya/KTM?

Just questions i'm throwing out there, please don't read too much into it... 

[FreepZ]

If I wanted to get a better idea of who was really interested, I would ask for a deposit - say about $200-$500.

However, if I wanted to generate a lot of interest, and get 1000 people hooked into watching my company for a year or two, I would keep the pre-orders free and dangle the chance to win a free bike for one of the first 1000 pre-orders.
(Does that sound familiar at all? )

Heck, if I could hand over all of the cash today and bump up my pre-order from 935 to 100 or less, I would do it. Sadly, I don't see that happening.  No Empulse for me for a long time yet.

[protomech]

The Nissan Leaf preorder to order conversion rate is around 20-40%, and that's with a $100 deposit.

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/02/only-40-percent-of-leaf-orders-become-purchases.html

The Empulse is shaping up to be somewhat different (and later) than originally announced. We'll see how that shakes out .. my suspicion is that the longer Brammo delays, the closer the major manufacturers get to releasing their own bikes.

See also Aptera. Very cool car, even now.. but how many would buy it over a Leaf? And how many of those gave up waiting and bought a Leaf?

[Richard230]

In my case, I pre-ordered an Empulse 10.0 about 7 days after the original announcement was made over a year ago (having been at the BMW motorcycle national rally at the time). Since then I managed to save enough cash to purchase the bike outright. Then when the year (at least) delivery delay was announced, I spent my money on fixing up my home.

In the meantime, waiting another year is going to get kind of old. Most people who buy motorcycles do so on the spur of the moment and I have seen very few customers that are willing to wait much more than a month or two to buy a new motorcycle model and I can't recall anyone who was ever willing to wait a year or more for a new motorcycle. The motorcycle business just isn't like that. You buy a motorcycle for fun and when you can afford it. If you have the money, it burns a hole through your pocket and if one bike isn't available, you just go buy the next best greatest model.

I can get the Empulse's performance by buying a new Honda CBR250R for only $4000 and it is available right now. You really have to want electric power to be willing to wait a year and pay an additional $10,000. The Empulse is going to be a tough sell in that kind of market and the bad economy is not going to help matters any.

I'll bet you a box of used LiFePo4 Hi Power batteries that Brammo will be lucky to see 10% of those 1,000+ Empulse pre-orders turn into actual sales when the bike finally arrives on the market next year (we all hope).

(Opps, I made a little number typo error, which has now been corrected.)

[protomech]

I can get the Empulse's performance by buying a new Honda CBR250R for only $4000 and it is available right now.

I expect performance near if not superior to a 500cc bike, not a 250.

But I guess we won't know until the third phase of production bikes goes out to media outlets .. sometime next year.

I won't take your bet if we're waiting on 10k pre-orders : )

[Deadly Silent Ninja]

@brammoHKjames: I completely agree with Richard230. I think the best way for you to have an idea how much Empulses you will be able to sell is to have one to sell in the first place. Without that, everything is just bad guesstimates. I can say that a couple of months ago I would buy the Empulse without even blinking. Now, I'm not even in the wait list anymore.

I am just waiting to see the Empulse in a local dealer, which will take over a year to happen. Until then, I am buying a Ninja 250.

When and if the Empulse becomes a reality, I will check it out. Right now it seems as far from my reality as Mission or Lightning.

[FreepZ]

Now, I'm not even in the wait list anymore.

Well, that might explain something...

Quoting delivery dates is tricky  (we are now very close to the magic 1000 pre-orders).

"very close to ... 1000 pre-orders"? I was 935 about 5 months ago (has it only been 5 mothns? It seems like years!), I would have thougt that they would have hit the 1000 mark a long time ago, but if people are bailing out, that would explain why they are still not at 1000 yet.

The Nissan Leaf preorder to order conversion rate is around 20-40%, and that's with a $100 deposit.

That's good news for me: I may, in reality, be only 187-374 (rather than 935) based on that conversion rate. Or even better if folkes are getting off the waiting list.

[05Sultan]

I got on the Empulse list last Easter Sunday and I have machine #1065. I'd like Brammo to do a better job of briefing the potential customers of all the innovative Tech that is going into the Empulse. IET,Batts,controllers,fairings?, etc. I mean tell us how some of this stuff works(IET) and why the brand they use is best,etc.,etc.
 Haven't heard much but race news for a while,but no fruit drops from it.(lessons learned).
Still patient........#1065

[badamsfx]

See also Aptera. Very cool car, even now.. but how many would buy it over a Leaf? And how many of those gave up waiting and bought a Leaf?

At least one. 

[Brammofan]

This just tweeted by Craig:

http://twitter.com/#!/BrammoCraig/statuses/100964236691382273

Continued strong interest in Brammo. We will be drawing the winner of an Empulse from the 1,000 pre-orders in September, stay tuned!

[Richard230]

Does that mean that there will be an Empulse for people with money to spend that can be purchased in September?   

[Gavin]

Unlikely.

1. A winner will be picked, but that winner won't likely get his/her Empulse till when the bikes are formally in production...next summer.

2. When production starts, most will go to pre-orders. Some will go to dealers as demos. Demos are not allowed to be sold...at least not for some time. But dealers with demos will be allowed to place orders...I imagine those dealer orders will be mixed in with the pre- orders...as in Brammo will fill pre ordes, but also dealer orders at the same time.

3. All this is speculation by myself and could be horribly wrong.

Gavin

[Sorian]

There are up to high 1300's based on my pre-order.

[protomech]

2. When production starts, most will go to pre-orders. Some will go to dealers as demos. Demos are not allowed to be sold...at least not for some time. But dealers with demos will be allowed to place orders...I imagine those dealer orders will be mixed in with the pre- orders...as in Brammo will fill pre ordes, but also dealer orders at the same time.

I doubt that walk-in dealer orders will be delivered before preorders -- or at least before that particular dealer has sold all of their allotted and confirmed preorders.

[Gavin]

I somewhat agree....basically a lot depends on production ramp up (being delayed a year could help as Brammo should have a good 6 months of Plus production experience under its belt)

1. Brammo won't want to upset pre order people too much
2. At the same time, Brammo will want to get dealers lots of sales ASAP to keep dealers happy. Dealers will want to sell bikes to local customers as locals are repeat buyers...so walk in count more than somebody like me that is a pre order, likely from out of state, that will not be seeing that shop again any time soon

So it is a balance...fill pre-orders while still getting demos out and getting some bikes on the floor to sell too...

But if Brammo can make 1000 a month, and that should be a doable number by next summer, well within a couple of months it shouldn't be an issue.

Gavin