Author Topic: 2012 Zeros to be at EICMA (Read 10062 times)

Richard230 · « **on:** October 05, 2011, 05:34:52 PM »

Zero will apparently be showing off its 2012 model range at the EICMA in Milan, Italy. That is the really big and important European motorcycle show. Read about it here:

http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2011/zero-motorcycles-to-eicma-milan-show

Hopefully, Brammo will be there also, with a display of the Enertia Plus, the Engage and the Empulse prototype and perhaps a display showing how the new six-speed transmission works. If you want to sell bikes in Europe, the EICMA is the show where it all happens.

Gavin · « **Reply #1 on:** October 05, 2011, 05:41:35 PM »

Yeah, Brammo was there last year and is going this year...lots of photos around here and the web from the show...

Gavin

Gavin · « **Reply #2 on:** October 05, 2011, 05:43:38 PM »

http://www.brammo.com/events/

and from last year...

http://brammoelectricmotorcycles.smugmug.com/Electric-Motorcycles/EICMA-2010/14755599_5xGK4#1099753798_N3b5L

Gavin

Brammofan · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2011, 10:52:50 AM »

Yes, I was going to say that Brammo was there last year and will be there this year. I wonder how close they will be to the Zero display.

Gavin · « **Reply #4 on:** November 04, 2011, 09:52:22 AM »

Zero is right across from Brammo...though Zero did get a fairly small booth space...half the size of Brammo's

Gavin

Gavin · « **Reply #5 on:** November 04, 2011, 09:58:09 AM »

Brammofan · « **Reply #6 on:** November 04, 2011, 10:54:54 AM »

Catty-cornered from the massive Harley area, too. I expect an epic battle of the booth babes. Here's a sneak peak of one of the Brammo Regazze.
[smg id=293 width=600]

Richard230 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 07, 2011, 10:58:12 AM »

Here is the latest news about the 2012 Zero range. It does not look good for Brammo. It appears that Zero has come up with their version of the Empulse - with production to start in the near future.

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/2012-zero-motorcycles-leak/

Gavin · « **Reply #8 on:** November 07, 2011, 11:18:32 AM »

Not sure why it doesn't look good for Brammo..

A) competition is a good thing
B) I didn't see a single photo of this Empulse Killer in that article.
C) Polaris deal = thousands of dealerships...and tons of money to assist Brammo...not sure how many dealerships Zero has, and how much money backing them, but nothing close to Polaris at this time for sure...

EICMA should be interesting though...and if Zero can get some models out by January, well that will be a good thing...it could help Brammo speed up production...maybe...though I imagine Brammo is going as fast as they can...and I don't expect Zero of have anything more than a few models at a time...they also can't just suddenly ramp up production and have hundreds of bikes within a month or two...

As far as adding more models, Brammo kinda did that too by going into Zeros market...adding BrammoParx and those Encites and Engages.

Well the article could have been, "Zero in Trouble as Brammo takes over the off road market"...but then it goes back to A) above...competition is a good thing...

Should Zero give up because of these?

Gavin

Brammofan · « **Reply #9 on:** November 07, 2011, 11:36:23 AM »

Seriously... Gavin beat me to it.

protomech · « **Reply #10 on:** November 07, 2011, 02:56:22 PM »

"Empulse Killer" is a whole bunch of hyperbole without any specifications other than capacity and pricing.

But if Zero can get motorcycles with 6-9kwh at dealerships by January 2012, then they will definitely take preorders from Brammo, all other specifications and details aside.

emotofreak · « **Reply #11 on:** November 07, 2011, 06:41:42 PM »

Quote from: Gavin on November 07, 2011, 11:18:32 AM

Not sure why it doesn't look good for Brammo..

A) competition is a good thing
--- Pretty sure you have to actually produce and sell something to be considered competition.
B) I didn't see a single photo of this Empulse Killer in that article.
--- That's because Zero doesn't hype VaporWare products. They will unveil the bikes, in production form, at EICMA tomorrow.
C) Polaris deal = thousands of dealerships...and tons of money to assist Brammo...not sure how many dealerships Zero has, and how much money backing them, but nothing close to Polaris at this time for sure...
--- You know Brammo is getting access to all Polaris's assets how? Polaris only contributed in the last round of funding, it's not like they are fully in-bed with Brammo at this stage. Or maybe they are, but we shouldn't pretend to know....

EICMA should be interesting though...and if Zero can get some models out by January, well that will be a good thing...it could help Brammo speed up production...maybe...though I imagine Brammo is going as fast as they can...and I don't expect Zero of have anything more than a few models at a time...they also can't just suddenly ramp up production and have hundreds of bikes within a month or two...
--- Of course they can (Zero), as a matter of fact they have been doing it for years, and have a proven track record of actually producing hundreds of bikes in a couple months.

As far as adding more models, Brammo kinda did that too by going into Zeros market...adding BrammoParx and those Encites and Engages.
--- Purchasing the name "BrammoParx" and showing off a few prototypes, that were spanked by Zero's, hardly seems like they are taking any market from Zero.

Well the article could have been, "Zero in Trouble as Brammo takes over the off road market"...but then it goes back to A) above...competition is a good thing...
--- You have got to be kidding?! Zero has tons of dirtbikes out in the wild, Brammo has 2. How could this be construed as "Zero in Trouble as Brammo takes over the off road market"?

Should Zero give up because of these?
--- A couple of contrived shots? I've seen mountain bikes catch more air. How 'bout some pics/video of the dirt bikes in action? I mean really tearing it up... Oh right, there aren't any...

Gavin

Am I bashing on Brammo? Yeah a bit, but this unsubstantiated fanboyism is getting old. Brammo can not be considered competition in any sense of the word untill they actually start delivering products on which they can be judged.

Brammo lost all credibility with me over the IET debacle. They claim it offers huge performance benefits, then got spanked at mini-moto by single-speed Zero's. Then they used it a a lame excuse as to why the bikes were delayed again. I bet, in the end, they don't even ship it. It has been almost 2 years since Brammo 1st announced the Empulse and you still can't ride one.

Gavin · « **Reply #12 on:** November 07, 2011, 06:51:36 PM »

haha, Zero employee is mad becasue Brammo fan site likes Brammo...

it's BrammoForum...go to Zero and you get Zero fanboyism...it's how the interwebs work...

I can't wait to see what Zero shows...hopefully they make some too...but really they are redoing all their products...again...why? Because the last ones didn't sell...

hopefully the new ones do...time will tell...

The delays are upsetting somewhat...but I hope to get a quality product to ride...I hope you do too...

It will be great to have bikes selling someplace other than California...Polaris is a huge key here...

Gavin

Richard230 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 07, 2011, 06:58:14 PM »

I am not trying to bash Brammo or promote Zero, but if Zero can actually place their new models on the showroom floor before the end of the year, they will have a jump on Brammo with customers who want a motorcycle with the claimed performance of the Empulse and have become tired of waiting for the revised prototype bike to be shown, much less to be supplied to pre-order customers.

The other thing to consider, is that the Federal Government's e-vehicle tax rebate may very well end this year as a victim of the budget problems. I have my doubts if the Republicans in the House are going to vote to continue the rebate program if they have anything to say about it - and I suspect that they do. So that would be an additional incentive to be a Zero 2012 early adopter.

In any case, I sure hope Brammo will show the six-speed prototype of the Empulse at the EICMA show. I need some news to fill a year-long vacuum.

protomech · « **Reply #14 on:** November 07, 2011, 07:54:08 PM »

@emotofreak

Neither Brammo nor Zero is producing big battery bikes yet. It's probably early to crow about Brammo not being considered competition : P

"Brammo can not be considered competition in any sense of the word untill they actually start delivering products on which they can be judged."

What, like the Enertia and the Zero S? The Enertia won most comparisons until Zero released their 2011 S. Neither Brammo nor Zero has announced production of the big battery bikes yet, it's probably a little early to declare Brammo not competition..

IET will only be a significant performance gain if you spend a significant amount of time outside the power band for the bike motor in a direct drive setup. What I remember of the race was that it was fairly low-speed - the Zeros were likely geared so that they were able to stay in the power band for the entire race.

Regardless, losing (and especially a single loss) doesn't mean one particular component or technology was weak - just that the combination of environment, racer, and bike was weak. Just like Brammo winning the 2011 TTXGP doesn't mean the Empulse RR is the fastest bike out -- clearly the Mission Motors, MotoCzysz and Lightning bikes are much faster -- just that it was fully developed enough to race and place strongly at each race. Bike + racer + environment.

That all said, I'm very interested to see what performance impact IET has in real life. There's so much we don't know about the shipping Empulse.. or this rumored Zero .. I'm hopeful that tomorrow will be like a miniature Christmas!

@Gavin

Is emotofreak a Zero employee? Does he have to be a Zero employee to "bash Brammo"?

@Richard230

I thought the e-moto rebate ended in calendar year 2011. I don't see how that would help Zero sell motorcycles next year.

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